Tax Treatment of Landlords has to be Revisited

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I am probably going to continue to rent currently after a 2 month break because I actually don't know in what else to invest currently and I have children who might need independent accommodation in the next 5 years. I would prefer them to have a discount rent then a tenant. My intention is to focus on short term renters (who have no intention to rent for a long time) to try to mitigate the risks, not really a good plan financially but I will see how it goes.
However I have zero trust on the government taking meaningful action and I would think that we could have another eviction ban next winter. They had 4 months to think, they even did some kind of mini budget 2 weeks ago...
 
There is no crystal ball made that could forsee what is going to happen come next winter or even before that. I don't hold out much hope for meaningful measures for owners in the budget. Any that are, should not apply to cuckoo funds and reits that already benefit from considerably favourable tax treatment on rent.
 
Re: RTE report Michael Lehane on Wednesday seems like speculation, that is, full CGT exemption if selling to the tenant or a housing body.

I really hope this happens.
How about only allow the CGT exemption on 1 property ?

We re waiting 27 years with our 1 bed cottage buy to let to get a break that finally makes money. We work hard in our day jobs.

I am honestly fed up with this buy to let "landlord" thing and I would like some benefit and get out soon and have some cash. I am 56.

We cannot afford to keep it to rent to my son at a reduced rate, the figures dont stack up.

Maybe Budget 2024 in October brings the CGT exemption or at least put it back to 20% (I missed the boat there).
 
jpd said:
There's nothing in the govenrment plans that will increase supply of housing - be it social, privately owned or rented

All they are doing is trying to move the chairs around - what they should be doing is building more chairs or, at least, providing incentives for someone to build more chairs
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What incentives could be offered to developers that would be acceptable though- maybe change the Part V regulations?

Are we in the mess of so little supply due to the Part V regulations on developers? We dont seem to have any lack of development for hotels, offices etc.

Aside from the 2008 crash, that part V must contribute to fewer properties being built. When it was introduced back in 2000, ireland had the highest number of houses built per capita in europe and developers were seen as the greedy fat cats so had to have their 'cough softened'. They bailed out and supply suffered.

Similar thing in the past decade, landlords were seen as greedy fat cats and had to have their cough softened and they are leaving. Supply of rentals is decreasing yet I read constantly on forums that landlords are cleaning up.

If the government offered incentives they would be accused of cosying up to developers and their wealthy buddies. There is such high demand for housing now that developers should be falling over themselves to build it but they're not.
 
they're not building because the cost of materials etc has risen so much that the ultimate selling price of the house is beyond what people can afford even after the Central Bank increased mortgage lending to 4 times combined salary.
 
Daire O'brien has promised "meaningful measures" will be introduced for tenants and landlords in the budget, Maybe it will include tax changes but any landlord I know is sceptical.

He also plans to bring in legislative changes before the summer for the first refusal scheme for tenants when a landlord is selling. How will that work? If the landlord is selling will they be restricted from putting the property on the open market?

Hard to see how more RTA regulations will encourage landlords to stay in the market.
 
First refusal in situ sale to tenant, or LA, or approved housing body:

While I would welcome this, coupled with CGT exemption or reduction, if the valuation is not acceptable, what happens then (with the property you own) ?
 
This thread has it mention this yet?
Income tax relief makes more sense than CGT relief I think
Considering CGT relief happens when the property is sold!

Independent

A series of other tax incentives for landlords were considered by a Cabinet subcommittee on housing which was tasked with drafting an options paper on the eviction ban.

This included introducing a new €14,000 tax break for landlords modelled on the rent-a-room scheme which gives homeowners a tax relief on rental income of the same amount for renting a room in their own home.
 
Reducing income tax does not really help those who want to sell unfortunately.

But a combination of in situ purchase, income tax relief and cgt relief would both sort out the landlords while also providing security for tenants, and they get an option to buy it (if valued fairly).
 
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I think that the CGT exemption for selling to a tenant or a local authority is just a waste of time. Who will stay in the market and continue to rent their property for 5/10 years or more on the premise that when they sell they would get a CGT exemption if their buyer is the right buyer? How will you know that your final tenant will possibly buy or that at that point the local authority would buy? And if it is not for encouraging one to stay in the market, then why give an exemption if the tenants or local authority already pay the market price?
bmount said:
Reducing income tax does not really help those who want to sell unfortunately.
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Why would it be in the state's interest to help the LL who want to sell if they are not staying in the market anyway?

Whatever they do, they need to really think about the consequences of their actions and regulations because, with low supply, when LL are renting they will do whatever they can to protect themselves from the potential risks they see in the regulations, which is totally understandable.
 
Yes. Points taken.

If the tenant or local authority pay full market price then maybe this can be resolved without CGT relief.

In my personal situation as a couple who simply bought a buy to let in 1996, it will be a significant contributor to our pension so of course we would like some CGT relief, not necessarily the full exemption but something.

(separately, regular pension funds seemed to have dropped 15 to 20% since Ukraine war, and other multiple crises)

My concern is being pushed into a lower sale price by "independent" valuations which may push the boundaries of my ownership rights. Article on this matter in Business Post yesterday.
 
bmount said:
In my personal situation as a couple who simply bought a buy to let in 1996, it will be a significant contributor to our pension so of course we would like some CGT relief, not necessarily the full exemption but something.
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I can understand that, me too! But if it is not to keep you in the market and just help you to sell, why? On a state level, that would make 0 sense to me.
bmount said:
My concern is being pushed into a lower sale price by "independent" valuations which may push the boundaries of my ownership rights.
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This would also be a concern for me.
 
azerty said:
But if it is not to keep you in the market and just help you to sell, why? On a state level, that would make 0 sense to me.
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Because their plans are, or should be, totally dependent on new investors coming into the market, preferably in droves, and the simpler and less expensive they can make it for these and current investors to exit the market in due course, the easier it will be to attract them in.
 
T McGibney said:
Because their plans are, or should be, totally dependent on new investors coming into the market, preferably in droves, and the simpler and less expensive they can make it for these and current investors to exit the market in due course, the easier it will be to attract them in.
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I understand that, but the remark was for that contributor's remark. If it is to facilitate the exit of the market now, it makes no sense to me. If it is to facilitate the exit of the market of current LL in a number of years (5/7/10.... I don't know) and also to attract new investors with this incentive, I totally agree with that idea, if it is not "buyer" dependent. To me, it would actually be the easiest scheme to apply and probably the most acceptable politically as it is less "visible" for most.
 
Or allow everybody a higher lifetime Total CGT exemption limit.
In some way give small investors something to cheer about (while meanwhile the vulture funds continue to cream it).
 
T McGibney said:
Because their plans are, or should be, totally dependent on new investors coming into the market, preferably in droves, and the simpler and less expensive they can make it for these and current investors to exit the market in due course, the easier it will be to attract them in
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The plan can't only be dependent on new supply and new investors. Investors are not going to be able to come in drove and provide an affordable service for tenants if we struggle on the supply side both in terms of number and cost.
 
T McGibney said:
Because their plans are, or should be, totally dependent on new investors coming into the market
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I don't think this is their plan for small landlords. From what I can gather, the plan is to tie up small landlords for as long as possible to smooth the transition to replacing them with institutional landlords.

They enacted the eviction ban to do this and obviously received legal advice that this wasn't sustainable. Now they seem to be looking at forcing sale to in-situe tenants etc. and bringing in further legislation before the summer. It seems like some new process just to delay landlords exiting, in place of the eviction ban. They are sticking to the same long term strategy, just changing the details on the implementation and it's more of the stick rather than the carrot I'm afraid.
 
azerty said:
Investors are not going to be able to come in drove and provide an affordable service for tenants if we struggle on the supply side both in terms of number and cost.
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Gross yields of 10% are available on apartments in Ireland. It's hard to get that anywhere else in Europe on residential property. It's an attractive prospect on paper.

Lack of investor interest is a combination of high tax, tenant risk, and regulatory risk.
 
Gross yields of 10% are available on apartments in Ireland. It's hard to get that anywhere else in Europe on residential property. It's an attractive prospect on paper.
I mentioned "affordable for tenants". In Dublin currently, it is very difficult to get affordability and 10 per cent gross yield.
 
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