Tax Treatment of Landlords has to be Revisited

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Agree with all sentiment on this.

The horse has bolted and still they dither and kick cans down Kildare and Merrion Streets.

The dithering started with Michael Noonan saying he thought landlords shold be permitted to offset LPT as an expense. No action.
Then more recently ( say 2020 onwards) talk of easing the tax burden, but again, multiple budgets, and nothing in them for landlords.

Nothing but indecision, and thats a conscious decision.

I have served notice on tenants as I am sure many others have or will.
 
The problem is that whatever they do is going to likely drive votes to the shinners as shinners will be all over it with what should have been done with their magic chest of limitless finance.
 
David_Dublin said:
The problem is that whatever they do is going to likely drive votes to the shinners as shinners will be all over it with what should have been done with their magic chest of limitless finance.
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Absolutely no time for SF but they couldn't be as bad as this shower of incompetent morons.
 
Knuttell said:
Absolutely no time for SF but they couldn't be as bad as this shower of incompetent morons.
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All of them are culpable in politising housing for their own agendas.
An all party approach is whats required to reach consensus and solution.
Waiting to use this for votes in the ext election is most likely what will happen.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Not for those who had zero rights of tenure, unreturned deposits, repairs not done etc.

Property ownership and letting is a business; regulation in a well run society is to be welcomed as benefiting all.
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The current system where the tenant has all the rights and the landlord cannot evict in a timely manner, if the rent is not paid, is not fair at all. I'm all for fairness but it has to work both ways. We've been really lucky that it hasn't happened to us, but Iots of small landlords have been crippled with it.
 
Luternau said:
All of them are culpable in politising housing for their own agendas.
An all party approach is whats required to reach consensus and solution.
Waiting to use this for votes in the ext election is most likely what will happen.
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The existing all party consensus is the root cause of the current crisis. It's impossible to reach a consensus with ideologues and fruitcakes except on their terms. The consensus should be thrown in the bin with great force and replaced with proper leadership.
 
The only consensus they managed to achieve is that their housing policy has been deplorable (both from a tenant and a LL point of view)
 
T McGibney said:
The existing all party consensus is the root cause of the current crisis. It's impossible to reach a consensus with ideologues and fruitcakes except on their terms. The consensus should be thrown in the bin with great force and replaced with proper leadership.
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My bad so

You would think and hope they could all manage to collectively put this to bed so they could move on with the simpler politicsl things.
 
Luternau said:
My bad so

You would think and hope they could all manage to collectively put this to bed so they could move on with the simpler politicsl things.
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They can't, because to do so would reveal the extent of their own collective failure.
 
"People who own a second property could be exempt from Capital Gains Tax (CGT) if they sell it to a tenant, a local authority or to an Approved Housing Body, under options Government is likely to consider to boost housing supply."
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/20...sed-changes-to-cgt-could-boost-rental-supply/

How exactly are you supposed to rely on any of those conditions being met when you sell?

This seems like more nonsense being floated purely for optics, like the tax exemption on fridges.
 
I can sort of see the logic behind a CGT exemption if you sell a rental to a local authority/approved housing body but I can’t see the logic of an exemption if you sell to your tenant (as opposed to somebody else’s tenant).

Having said that, a lot of “accidental” landlords and amateur investors that bought at the height of the property bubble still don’t have any latent capital gains so this possible measure wouldn’t be of any relevance to this substantial cohort.

It all feels like a kite to keep some landlords hanging in there. I don’t think it will work.
 
Sarenco said:
I can sort of see the logic behind a CGT exemption if you sell a rental to a local authority/approved housing body but I can’t see the logic of an exemption if you sell to your tenant (as opposed to somebody else’s tenant).

Having said that, a lot of “accidental” landlords and amateur investors that bought at the height of the property bubble still don’t have any latent capital gains so this possible measure wouldn’t be of any relevance to this substantial cohort.

It all feels like a kite to keep some landlords hanging in there. I don’t think it will work.
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You also have those who bought and were given cgt exemptions if they held for a set period of time.
 
Sarenco said:
It all feels like a kite to keep some landlords hanging in there. I don’t think it will work.
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I would weight the probability of paying no CGT at something like 1% based on those criteria so would discount it completely in any decision making. They are talking about it boosting supply?

They must just base their policy announcements on an assumption that the majority of the electorate are stupid.
 
CGT is an exit tax on a gain that may not be a lot or any for some. If the goal is to keep private landlords in the sector, something on income tax is required. The headline is always said, LL are paying 52% tax each year.
 
There will be so many kites flying over the next 6 months that the planes will be in danger of being damaged. When all is said and done any benefits to Landlords will only last a year or so. The Shinners will rewrite the legislation anyway. Any Landlord who believes the nonsense that is being floated by Government would be foolish to be taken it by it. Its all a delaying tactic. What is really needed at the moment is a 10 year plan to give certainty and not changes every 3 or 4 months. What did all of the TD's in the Dail think when they were approving all the anti-landlord rules and regulations. The chickens are coming home to roost now so to speak
 
IMO tax is not really the problem.

Sure, there are things that could and should be done around the edges (make LPT deductible for income tax purposes, exempt Part V income from USC & PRSI and improve the capital allowances regime).

But none of that is going to really move the dial.

The real problem is over regulation (hello rent controls) and an inability for landlords to exercise their rights expeditiously when things go wrong (hello RTB).

Without tackling those (Government created) issues, the private rental sector will continue to contract,

And that’s bad news for all of us.
 
For whatever factors the Government made a brave decision to end the ban.
Whatever else is said is simply kite-flying and waiting till October is imho a stalling tactic.
By October/November the atmosphere may be awful and another eviction ban enacted,, an opportunity for a clean exit may not come again.
It would be best to grasp this chance,
Once out for me, a river of change in the sector would need to happen to get back in, its not simply one thing its all the small changes.
As someone who has been good to tenants and not changed the rent in 10 years, if i get a clean exit, and reinvest down the line how can i set the rent with a manageable return given that 2% max year on year increase ? Inflation is 8%... id be back in the situation i'm trying to get out of before long.
Does anyone think a pint is worth 10 euro, but that's what it is in Temple Bar.
Everything has leaped in cost so confining a sector to 2% is noble in thought but not sustainable.
 
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