Taoiseach: "Possible ban on evictions during energy crisis"

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Purple said:
Supply was increasing but it was the influx of labour post 2004 that allowed the supply to expand as it did up until 2008.
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Both are true, neither contradict my point that rents stagnated from early 2002 with the relatively minor injection of new supply at that point.

There's probably a lesson there for today's policymakers if only they'd see it.
 
Purple said:
True but if the house is sold it's likely that there'll be one less family in rental accommodation/on a homeless list etc. I do agree that's it's not desirable but it's not as if the house gets demolished.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when interest rates go higher than net yields and the big institutional investors that everyone loved to hate start leaving the market.
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Some rental properties house more than two people however when they are purchased as owner occupied the no of bed spaces reduces.
 
T McGibney said:
Both are true, neither contradict my point that rents stagnated from early 2002 with the relatively minor injection of new supply at that point.

There's probably a lesson there for today's policymakers if only they'd see it.
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Possibly. We certainly need more smaller units, better (not higher) building standards particularly in the area of factory built homes, a way of freeing up building land (that could be through taxation or tax breaks or planning reform or whatever, it doesn't matter as long as it works).

But back on topic; the State is failing to meet its social responsibility (if one exists) to house the population so it is outsourcing the problem to private landlords and then vilifying them because they aren't meeting a responsibility that isn't their to meet. That screwed up abrogation of responsibility is the root cause of the uncertainty that Landlords feel.

Tax breaks aren't going to fix it. Pseudo-socialist populism from the Shinners, some backbenchers' and the media aren't going to fix it, soundbites from former People Before Profit Marxists masquerading as academic experts in housing aren't going to fix it. The car crash messaging from the woman from the Private Landlords Association certainly doesn't help.

Placing the responsibility with the State where it belongs and taking private landlords and institutional investors out of the firing line would be a good start.
 
Purple said:
Placing the responsibility with the State where it belongs and taking private landlords and institutional investors out of the firing line would be a good start.
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IF that's where it belongs in the first place!

And, if the state is responsible for housing its citizens, then surely it's also responsible for feeding them, clothing them, burying them and perhaps even changing their nappies?
 
Groucho said:
IF that's where it belongs in the first place!

And, if the state is responsible for housing its citizens, then surely it's also responsible for feeding them, clothing them, burying them and perhaps even changing their nappies?
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If there is a responsibility to house citizens then it sure isn't on private landlords to shoulder the burden.
 
Purple said:
Why should landlords get tax breaks on their personal income that other people don't get? Until recently I was a landlord so I know what's involved but I never understood why there was an expectation that they should get some sort of special treatment.

What would have been useful is a reform of the RTB so that it supported landlords as well as tenants. An effective mechanism where tenants could be evicted for non payment of rent or antisocial behaviour would have been much more useful.
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Completely agree with this Purple. Biggest issue for me is the threat of bans on evictions and/or selling with tenants in situ. The RTB are often quoted by politicians as being there to aid landlords but I think at this stage everyone knows it is no friend to landlords.
 
Purple said:
Increases in tax bands help every income tax payer so that's not nothing. The pre-letting costs are not nothing, though they certainly aren't much. Why should landlords get tax breaks on their personal income that other people don't get? Until recently I was a landlord so I know what's involved but I never understood why there was an expectation that they should get some sort of special treatment.
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They should if they're providing an essential item(service/commodity, not sure which applies here) - i.e. long-term tenancy.
There should be 0% tax on long-term rentals in my opinion.
Short-term rentals or where the person has a home already somewhere else, should be taxed.
The kind of blanket tax that exists at the moment is wrong.
 
Purple said:
Why should landlords get tax breaks on their personal income that other people don't get? Until recently I was a landlord so I know what's involved but I never understood why there was an expectation that they should get some sort of special treatment.
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Just for the laughs, it's worth noting that there's a very generous tax exemption for income from long-term letting of farm land, up to €40,000 per annum. https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-...and-and-property/leasing-farm-land/index.aspx
 
wondering said:
They should if they're providing an essential item(service/commodity, not sure which applies here) - i.e. long-term tenancy.
There should be 0% tax on long-term rentals in my opinion.
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Property rental is one of the few (maybe only?) sectors where the asset being rented out appreciates rather than depreciates during the rental period. Most other rental industries that I can think have to replace stock over a period of time. Does any other rental sector gain special tax treatment (I see Tommy has already pointed out one farm related exception)?
 
Ceist Beag said:
Property rental is one of the few (maybe only?) sectors where the asset being rented out appreciates rather than depreciates during the rental period.
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No market can realistically expect perpetual capital asset price appreciation. Even in the past 15 years there have been significant swings, up and down, in residential property values. There are houses and apartments out there that have still not recovered their 2006 values for example.
Ceist Beag said:
Property rental is one of the few (maybe only?) sectors where the asset being rented out appreciates rather than depreciates during the rental period. Most other rental industries that I can think have to replace stock over a period of time.
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A residential investment property must be maintained over the years at considerable cost, as otherwise it will become uninhabitable and ultimately worthless. The country is full of properties that are now uninhabitable because they weren't maintained properly.
 
wondering said:
They should if they're providing an essential item(service/commodity, not sure which applies here) - i.e. long-term tenancy.
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So power supply employees, truck drivers, Irish Water employees and other essential workers should also get these tax breaks as they are providing essential services? What about non-essential but important sectors such as healthcare and education, should they get them too?
wondering said:
There should be 0% tax on long-term rentals in my opinion.
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Why?
wondering said:
Short-term rentals or where the person has a home already somewhere else, should be taxed.
The kind of blanket tax that exists at the moment is wrong.
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Why?
 
T McGibney said:
A residential investment property must be maintained over the years at considerable cost, as otherwise it will become uninhabitable and ultimately worthless. The country is full of properties that are now uninhabitable because they weren't maintained properly.
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Do you think there should be zero tax on rental income?
 
Purple said:
Sure most of the income farmers get is in the form of handouts. It would be unfair to tax them as well!
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Note that it's not farmers who benefit from the long term land leasing exemption, but landowners who have quit farming or who have never farmed.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Property rental is one of the few (maybe only?) sectors where the asset being rented out appreciates rather than depreciates during the rental period. Most other rental industries that I can think have to replace stock over a period of time. Does any other rental sector gain special tax treatment (I see Tommy has already pointed out one farm related exception)?
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The farm thing is interesting, but that would come more under employment / creating employment ?

Something as fundamental as a place to live can't really be compared to other rental industries I don't think.

Short-term and long-term rentals are very different and should be in separate categories when it comes to tax, etc.
 
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