Taoiseach: "Possible ban on evictions during energy crisis"

[Silversurfer]

I wouldn't equate what some political party wants with it being popular. The media is a tool for shaping opinion more than anything else.

As mentioned, there is nothing definite about it. It's unlikely to happen IMO.

The real story is that they want people to think it might, creating panic.


That's the million dollar question!

There have been several news stories this week about our accommodation crisis. This morning a converted restaurant in Carlow was highlighted as not providing a high standard of accommodation. The Government response was innovative solutions have to be found. Likewise the numbers of people fleeing the war in Ukraine have been given as 55,000 and rising. The Irish Refugee Council have come out and spoken about the tented accommodation. I do not believe MM is shooting the breeze.

 

[valery]

The Irish Times quotes a senior source pointing to eviction bans in France which last until the end of March next. Very selective quote on French tenancy rules. Maybe the senior source could also advise the Irish Times how France taxes rental income.
For gross earnings under €72,600, 50% is allowed as expenses and the remaining 50% is taxed at a far lower rate than most landlords pay in Ireland.

 

[Leo]

I wouldn't equate what some political party wants with it being popular.

Politicians are mostly driven by being elected, that is inherently populist. Opposition parties pretty much only ever either criticise current government policies or call for what the masses want.

The media is a tool for shaping opinion more than anything else.

The media for the most part is a tool for making money. Some more than other strive to shape public opinion in their owners' interests.

The real story is that they want people to think it might, creating panic.

There's nothing in that for them. You're confusing incompetence and poor decision making with malice.

 

[blanketyblank]

I think the government is so terrified of sinn Fein that they'll do anything to try and give them nothing to moan about. There would be nothing wrong with this perhaps as long as they made an exception for those who stop paying because of it.

 

[wondering]

Again, why would the Government want to do that?

It was quoted on another thread recently and I think is applicable here and that is

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Except it's not explained by stupidity.
If you look at the past number of years, starting with rent caps or tax on rentals, you see a pattern of measures against landlords consequently affecting tenants. At the very least, most landlords increased rents because of ridiculous tax imposed on them. I don't blame them for that, but most would, because the media puts out landlord-vs-tenant stories all the time, and vice versa - they switch sides to create illusion of being balanced.

It's divide and conquer basically, the oldest trick there is.

 

[Silversurfer]

With the large numbers relying on the Government to house or help them. Small private landlords are of no consequence. The Corporate landlords are being taken care of.

 

[Peanuts]

Politicians are mostly driven by being elected, that is inherently populist. Opposition parties pretty much only ever either criticise current government policies or call for what the masses want.


The media for the most part is a tool for making money. Some more than other strive to shape public opinion in their owners' interests.


There's nothing in that for them. You're confusing incompetence and poor decision making with malice.

That's exactly it

 

[galway_blow_in]

Except it's not explained by stupidity.
If you look at the past number of years, starting with rent caps or tax on rentals, you see a pattern of measures against landlords consequently affecting tenants. At the very least, most landlords increased rents because of ridiculous tax imposed on them. I don't blame them for that, but most would, because the media puts out landlord-vs-tenant stories all the time, and vice versa - they switch sides to create illusion of being balanced.

It's divide and conquer basically, the oldest trick there is.

No it’s lily livered politicians making poor choices at the behest of media and other left wing ideologues , their is no conspiracy on the part of FG/FF to either drive out landlords or make things worse for tenants in terms of rental availability

 

[The Horseman]

With the large numbers relying on the Government to house or help them. Small private landlords are of no consequence. The Corporate landlords are being taken care of.

I would not agree with this. The Govt needs the small landlord as we are an uncoordinated group of suppliers.

We take all the risk (non paying tenant etc), the state takes all the reward (tax).

The institutional landlords are not interested in the low cost tenants and have the preferential tax rates etc. When the state changes these dynamics the institutional landlords have the coordination to significantly impact the market and they will have the financial fire power to do so.

It is political suicide to be seen to support the small landlord but if the govt don't engage collaborately with us then they will be controlled by a small number of large suppliers ie the institutional landlords.

 

[wondering]

No it’s lily livered politicians making poor choices at the behest of media and other left wing ideologues , their is no conspiracy on the part of FG/FF to either drive out landlords or make things worse for tenants in terms of rental availability

I'd agree they are in some way at behest of media. There's more to it.

You probably should ask why, if they aren't a so-called left-wing group themselves, why FF/FG would be considering caving to something they supposedly think is wrong.

 

[wondering]

It is political suicide to be seen to support the small landlord but if the govt don't engage collaborately with us then they will be controlled by a small number of large suppliers ie the institutional landlords.

I don't get this. Political suicide?
The whole point of politics, or its talent, is to sell ideas to people: small landlords and tenants have interests in common.

 

[The Horseman]

I don't get this. Political suicide?
The whole point of politics, or its talent, is to sell ideas to people: small landlords and tenants have interests in common.

We want to let everyone have their "forever home" but we don't want to evict people for non payment of rent or mortgages. The State has moved the responsibility to house people to the private sector and tied our hands at the same time.

No politician will ever say someone should be evicted for non payment of what they owe. Most people believe that they should pay what they owe but of there are no consequences for those who don't then why bother.

Can you provide an example of what the state has "sold" to the small landlords over the recent past that benefits us?

 

[galway_blow_in]

I'd agree they are in some way at behest of media. There's more to it.

You probably should ask why, if they aren't a so-called left-wing group themselves, why FF/FG would be considering caving to something they supposedly think is wrong.

Because public discourse in Ireland is entirely controlled and dictated by left wingers , FF and FG haven’t the steel or conviction to follow through on what needs doing or tell the media and NGO sector where to go, we don’t have any Margaret Thatcher’s in politics in this country who see things through regardless of the tut tutting of the chattering classes

 

[wondering]

We want to let everyone have their "forever home" but we don't want to evict people for non payment of rent or mortgages. The State has moved the responsibility to house people to the private sector and tied our hands at the same time.

I don't think 'forever home' is a priority for them at all. The opposite I would say - they want to house a moving population of nomads. (Rentals I mean. Mortgages, a separate issue)

Security of tenure is a reality only for those totally dependent on the state for housing (i.e. council house).

No politician will ever say someone should be evicted for non payment of what they owe. Most people believe that they should pay what they owe but of there are no consequences for those who don't then why bother.

I still don't get it. What would happen if they did say this? I don't recall them ever saying it. What are they afraid of ?!

Can you provide an example of what the state has "sold" to the small landlords over the recent past that benefits us?

No, that's what I've been saying. They want small landlords gone from the picture.

 

[The Horseman]

I don't think 'forever home' is a priority for them at all. The opposite I would say - they want to house a moving population of nomads. (Rentals I mean. Mortgages, a separate issue)

Security of tenure is a reality only for those totally dependent on the state for housing (i.e. council house).

I still don't get it. What would happen if they did say this? I don't recall them ever saying it. What are they afraid of ?!

No, that's what I've been saying. They want small landlords gone from the picture.

But forever home is exactly what they want. Currently we have almost indefinite leases to the benefit of the tenant.

Our historical experience of landlords is still ingrained in our minds. Housing is the number one political issue in Ireland. Do you honestly think a politician who agrees to evictions will be voted for?

 

[wondering]

But forever home is exactly what they want. Currently we have almost indefinite leases to the benefit of the tenant.

Indefinite just means there's no longer a 6-month period every few years where eviction could happen without reason. I think that's fair. After the first 6 months, valid reasons for eviction have to be given - this is unchanged.

Our historical experience of landlords is still ingrained in our minds.

The culture here is ahistorical now if anything. As well as this, a significant number of the population is not Irish now.

Housing is the number one political issue in Ireland.

Today it is, maybe, now that it's in 'crisis' mode! Until fairly recently it was nowhere near the top issue (It should have been but wasn't).

Do you honestly think a politician who agrees to evictions will be voted for?

Today? No, because people have nowhere to move to! They hide behind that which is the main issue by pretending to care about tenants.

A few years ago they could have come out clearly saying non-payment etc is wrong, and be voted for - they didn't then either.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Its just populist.

Because most renters can't see that small LLs supply the majority of the properties they need to rent, especially at the cheaper end.

Will they do it, ban evictions. Well there precedent during lockdown. So saying it will never happen is a bit daft. its already happened.

 

[PebbleBeach2020]

Perhaps the government should outline a vision of what they want the rental market to look like in two years time.

If it is tenants staying in situ when a house is sold, all landlords have two years to get out of the market. Those still on in two years time got their warning and are now retaining the rental until the tenant leaves and they sell them, or else they sell with the tenant there to another landlord.

There's nothing worse than spreading false information that poor communication. Be honest and clear and upfront with people. You will gain a lot more respect as a result.

 

[jpd]

Perhaps the government should outline a vision of what they want the rental market to look like in two years time.

The problem is that the current government will (probably) not be the government in two years time, so any commitments given are (probably) worthless

 

[PebbleBeach2020]

Give landlords 18 months to get out or stay in. Then do whatever they want in terms of tenancies. The homeless will hit 15000 maybe 20000 and they can start from their then.

Minister McGrath with his rubbish about hoping to retain landlords and attract more on when the government did nothing for landlords in the budget. Nothing.