Socialist Thatcherism

Purple

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Jason O'Mahony wrote an interesting piece in the Indo about the contradiction of those who want the State to provide services for them without actually paying for it.
I think this mindset is more damaging than he outlines in his article and is the reason we have such a narrow tax base, high debt levels and unsustainable levels of State pension and welfare provision.
 

odyssey06

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Plus the expectation that the lion's share of any extra funding for services would be gobbled up in pay claims and feather-bedding and not go to actual improved services or employing more frontline staff.
 

Purple

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We've loads of general threads about the provision of services by the State. Can we keep this to whether posters think the State can provide those services better (quality and value for money) than the private sector.
My view is that I would love it if they could but I don't believe that they can deliver either better quality or value than the private sector.
I think that the State should regulate, not run, when it comes to most services and that transparent taxation such as a TV licence (Public Service Broadcasting Tax), water charges etc are a great idea and that everyone who consumes a service should pay for it.
 

jpd

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Agree but unfortunately, no one proposing this would have a chance of getting elected, never mind putting it into action :-(
 

odyssey06

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We've loads of general threads about the provision of services by the State. Can we keep this to whether posters think the State can provide those services better (quality and value for money) than the private sector.
My view is that I would love it if they could but I don't believe that they can deliver either better quality or value than the private sector.
I think that the State should regulate, not run, when it comes to most services and that transparent taxation such as a TV licence (Public Service Broadcasting Tax), water charges etc are a great idea and that everyone who consumes a service should pay for it.
+1 re: I don't believe they can deliver either better quality or value. But then our regulators are a joke too e.g. COMREG.

But people who don't watch RTE or use RTE.ie or RTE player would be charged for the new broadcasting tax regardless of whether they consume the service or not? Plus I'm not sure what % of the country are exempt from having one, but it's so many that basically the burden falls on the same people who pay for all the other taxes and services.

Also, on the water charges, the whole IW debacle stank of corruption and semi-state feather bedding and and I think it's clear after 3 previous abolitions of water charges in this country that they ain't going to stick so let's focus on the best way to fund it that doesn't involve that.
 

Purple

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the whole IW debacle stank of corruption and semi-state feather bedding
So just like every other State or Semi-State body. The difference with Irish Water was we saw behind the curtain.
That's leads into the larger question of why anyone would want the State to deliver any service.
 

rboyddd

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Electronic voting machines
€1.3bn overspend on 2018 Health budget
€1bn write off on PPARs
Motorway Programme Cost €16bn against a budgeted €6bn
National Stadium plan abandoned with a €200m cost to the taxpayer
National Children's Hospital....

The above headline items would indicate that the state has poor project spend controls / skills.
As the state does not yet run a budgetary surplus there are additional borrowing costs associated with the above amounts.
 

Purple

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Electronic voting machines
€1.3bn overspend on 2018 Health budget
€1bn write off on PPARs
Motorway Programme Cost €16bn against a budgeted €6bn
National Stadium plan abandoned with a €200m cost to the taxpayer
National Children's Hospital....

The above headline items would indicate that the state has poor project spend controls / skills.
As the state does not yet run a budgetary surplus there are additional borrowing costs associated with the above amounts.
€20 billion a year in Healthcare Spending, amongst the highest per capita spend in the world, especially if we adjust for our very young population and yet we have dreadful levels of services (but of course nobody who actually works in the healthcare sector is actually at fault; it's all the fault of the particular minister of the day).

We need more direct taxes, ring-fenced against specific spends, not less. The RTE type tax is the way to go; we know exactly what it costs each household and we know exactly what we get for it.
"General Taxation" is a warren of byzantine black holes into which nobody knows how much of their money perishes.
Wouldn't it be great if each tax payer got a statement of account each year from the government outlining exactly where all their taxes went. It would be useful if that statement also outlined how much the state spent on them too.
 

rboyddd

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Didn't Renua espouse this type of transparency as part of their manifesto coupled with a radical deconstruction of the existing "progressive" PAYE/PRSI/USC tax system. The left leaning media certainly contributed to thwarting that initiative.
 

Purple

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I was looking at that yesterday. It tells us where all our money goes. I would like a breakdown of where my money goes.
I know that 10.5% of my taxes go to paying State Pensions but that doesn't include the pensions of retired State employees.
I know that 27% of my taxes to to welfare and I know that 22.4% of my taxes go to Healthcare but I want to know what it costs me every time a new super drug costing tens of thousand a week is approved by the HSE.

It would be nice if the people who pay for nothing also saw how much of other people's money was being spent on them in both direct and indirect benefits.
The reality is that on average only the top 30% of income tax payers are net contributors. I'm in that bracket but with 4 kids I'm not sure if I actually pay in more that I get out.
 
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