Smart Meters

[Silversurfer]

Are there different standing charges on smart plans than existing non smart plans ?

Yes when I switched from my standard day & night rate where there were two standing charges to a smart meter plan there was only one standing charge. Clubman posted a detailed spreadsheet on charges. I don’t know how much was saved on my plan less a night meter standing charge.

 

[ClubMan]

Clubman posted a detailed spreadsheet on charges.

Just to be clear - I didn't post any spreadsheets - I posted a screenshot of the results of my uploaded HDF smart meter data and energypal's resulting analysis.

 

[Leo]

Even though in their billing system they could see the meter reading data received from the smart meter.

Can they though? Is it the suppliers who dictate what reading data they want from ESB Networks or do ESBN automatically send time of use data once a meter is enabled? I'd have assumed the former.

 

[Cervelo]

My gas boiler is 15 years old and will probably need updating in the next five or so years and I was thinking given the we we both live,
that getting rid of the boiler for heating and installing storage heating downstairs and panel heaters up stairs might be the way to go
And like Mr Clubman I'm not seeing any "Nightsaver" plans for the smart meters only day, night and peak

But I'm wondering if the EV smart plan that I'm on might be the answer??

I'm not sure how much time a storage heater needs to recharge but presume its about eight hours,
so on my EV plan now that would be be 5 hours at .2808 and 3 hours at .0949 which would average out for the 8 hours at .2110 c/Kwh
or am I over simplifying the whole thing??

Current rates are Day 37.23 Night 28.08 Peak 51.92 EV 9.49 c/Kwh plus any additional discounts I get

 

[dem_syhp]

My gas boiler is 15 years old and will probably need updating in the next five or so years and I was thinking given the we we both live,
that getting rid of the boiler for heating and installing storage heating downstairs and panel heaters up stairs might be the way to go
And like Mr Clubman I'm not seeing any "Nightsaver" plans for the smart meters only day, night and peak

But I'm wondering if the EV smart plan that I'm on might be the answer??

I'm not sure how much time a storage heater needs to recharge but presume its about eight hours,
so on my EV plan now that would be be 5 hours at .2808 and 3 hours at .0949 which would average out for the 8 hours at .2110 c/Kwh
or am I over simplifying the whole thing??

Current rates are Day 37.23 Night 28.08 Peak 51.92 EV 9.49 c/Kwh plus any additional discounts I get

Never mind cost, talk / visit someone with storage heaters before making a decision like that. I'd storage heaters in an apartment, built in 2008, so not old 1980's ones. I hated them, they over heated the room early in the day (which we were out of work - I appreciate not the same for you), but no amount of tweaking could get them to reduce the heat down, to stagger it out over the day - we would get heat out from them from early till about 4pm (From memory, certainly not in to the evening). More importantly, we'd a lot of solar gain from full size south facing windows, so even in winter with cold weather if the sun was out the room would heat up - the very time the heat was coming out of the storage heaters. But if we'd set the heaters on, we'd be opening the door/windows as the heat would be too much. For us and our property, the storage heaters didn't suit, we'd to decide a day in advance if we wanted them on, only used them at weekends when exceptional weather. 98% of the time, we just used them as heaters but didn't use the storage mode.

 

[ClubMan]

And like Mr Clubman I'm not seeing any "Nightsaver" plans for the smart meters only day, night and peak

Actually that wasn't a point that I was making previously. I just wanted to stay on a "regular" (legacy?) non-smart day/night tariff for the moment especially because the night rate on such a plan is significantly lower than that available on any smart plan and c. 60% of my overall use across a full year is night use. And, as I said, when I have a reasonable amount of HDF data via the smart meter I'll do a proper review using energypal.

But, now that you mention it, it does look like all smart plans seem to have day/peak/night rates (and maybe other rates for EVs etc.). I can't see any that just has a day and night rate like the older Nightsaver plans.

 

[Pmc365]

My friend owns an apartment. There are about 25 old fashioned meters the far side of the wall of her Kitchen /diner facing the foyer of the apartment block common area. She is worried about the potential health effect of all these soon to be installed replacement smart meters emiting signals. I tried to reassure her that it is a block concrete wall between the meters and her apartment but I don't have a scientific background. Would she have any grounds to object.

 

[fayf]

Annual electricity standing charges, vary hugely across tarriffs, starting as low as around €218, and going up to more than €370 annually, depending on urban/rural, smart, 24 hour or day/night tarriff.

Some smart meter tariffs have very low unit rates but for limited periods, like Pinergy have one for 5.45 cent inc vat, for 3 hours at night, energia have one for 4 hours at night for 7.54 cent inc vat. Neither of these tarroffs have peak rates

There are day/night tariffs also where night rate is higher than the two above. but more flexible as its for 9 hours per night.

These low night rates are often counterbalanced, by higher day rates than some 24 hour tariffs. Then there are the “carrot” tariffs of free weekend electricity, which is not free, as the non free days are always higher, and they tend to be very inflexible tariffs.

You can have a smart meter and still be on a day/night tariff, but once you switch to a smart tariff it is difficult, if not impossible to switch back. I have a smart meter but on a day/night tariff currently, 55 % night last year, however looking to move to a smart tariff at the moment, as PV installed recently, and batteries are enroute soon, so makes sense to do this.

It is after getting quite complicated to asses the hundreads of tariffs, as now those with PV have to consider the export rate which varies, starying around 18cent up to 25cent, currently, the highest export rate available, and those with smart meters have to be aware of their detailed time of day usage, to determine the best fit for their circumstances.

You need detailed information, to correctly identify the most beneficial plan for your own individual setup/circumstances, but focus on:

the unit rates by time- day, peak, night.
the annual standing charges,
the export rate, if PV is applicable,
and another variable for PV systems, is your battery size, as that can be charged at a very low night rate, and power your home fully or partially, during the day & peak rates, if sufficiently big enough.

Ignore “20% off”, as its all about the unit costs.

Tools like Energypal are very helpful, but once data is known, it is actual usage behaviour changes, is very beneficial - timed applicances and hot water heating etc.

For some, it is easy to move much more 50 % of annual usage to night rates, this becomes more important if you have a heatpump, or an EV, but even if you don’t, having a PV system with a battery can help with this.

 

[fayf]

My friend owns an apartment. There are about 25 old fashioned meters the far side of the wall of her Kitchen /diner facing the foyer of the apartment block common area. She is worried about the potential health effect of all these soon to be installed replacement smart meters emiting signals. I tried to reassure her that it is a block concrete wall between the meters and her apartment but I don't have a scientific background. Would she have any grounds to object.

Smart meters have sim cards embedded into the unit, exactly the same, as in all mobile phones have, so failing a ban on all mobile phones, no, there would not be any grounds.

Anyone who is concerned about being in close proximity to multiple smart meters/sim cards, should consider, they already do this every day, in supermarkets, busses, trains, airplanes, hotels, and any crowded places etc.

Now, if it was in close proximity to a mobile phone mast, or a pylon, that would be a whole different ballgame

 

[ClubMan]

My friend owns an apartment. There are about 25 old fashioned meters the far side of the wall of her Kitchen /diner facing the foyer of the apartment block common area. She is worried about the potential health effect of all these soon to be installed replacement smart meters emiting signals. I tried to reassure her that it is a block concrete wall between the meters and her apartment but I don't have a scientific background. Would she have any grounds to object.

On what basis would she be objecting?
What "health effects" is she worried about?

 

[ClubMan]

Now, if it was in close proximity to a mobile phone mast, or a pylon, that would be a whole different ballgame

Why?

Mobile phones & health

Mobile phone handsets are the most significant source of public exposure to radiofrequency electromagnetic fields

www.epa.ie

The exposure levels from a mobile phone in contact with the body can reach 100 to 400 times the levels of the typical exposure one receives from mobile phone masts or base stations.

Are powerlines, phones, radio masts and communication devices causing cancer?

www.cancer.ie

 

[ClubMan]

Tools like Energypal are very helpful, but once data is known, it is actual usage behaviour changes, is very beneficial - timed applicances and hot water heating etc.

This doesn't seem to make much sense - maybe you can clarify?

 

[fayf]

This doesn't seem to make much sense - maybe you can clarify?

Getting the info from Energy Pal is one thing, and will certainly help with finding the best tarriff, for ones current usage, but the data also highlights where the biggest usage costs are, what the current consumption habits are.

If one wants to make additional cost reduction progress, once on best tarriff, consumption habit changes are needed. From using timers on various appliances to better utilising night rates, to considering PV & batteries, to nudge oneself towards self sufficiency, eg charging your battery at low night rates, as low as under 6cent, around a quarter of best currently available 24 hour rate,if battery is big enough, it can power your home for all or most of the day.

A further step, are much bigger medium to long term changes as part of house retrofitting//refurbishment project. As the single biggest consumption apart from heatpumps and EV’s, is usually electric showers, particularly in multi person households, it can make sense to get rid of these, if you have good water pressure, a pressurised water system is an option if one is doing a house retrofitting & bathroom refurbishment project. It also provides noise free & peaceful showers ! Heating water with a heat pump - as low as around 6 cent per kw night rate, is a fraction of the cost of anything else currently available.

 

[ClubMan]

Getting the info from Energy Pal is one thing, and will certainly help with finding the best tarriff, for ones current usage, but the data also highlights where the biggest usage costs are, what the current consumption habits are.

Fair enough, but I would've thought that it was a given that economising on/optimising one's energy usage was a good idea and that this thread is specifically about issues pertaining to smart meters/tariffs?

 

[fayf]

Fair enough, but I would've thought that it was a given that economising on/optimising one's energy usage was a good idea and that this thread is specifically about issues pertaining to smart meters/tariffs?

Pertaining to smart meters, as one can leverage the cheapest available night rates, which are only available, on smart meter tarriffs, such as

Pinergy Lifestyle “EV Drive Time” 5.45 c, inc vat, for 3 hours 2 to 5am

Energia “Smart Drive”, 7.54 c inc vat, for 4 hours 2 to 6am

 

[Leo]

But I'm wondering if the EV smart plan that I'm on might be the answer??

You'd need to work out the numbers, but installing a battery that you charge on the EV rate might make sense.

 

[mark11]

I got in a smart meter a couple of years ago. BIG MISTAKE
I joined Yuno in August 2023
Unknown to me they moved me from MCC01 Urban24 tariff to MCC12 Urban smart24 Tariff in Dec 2023 .
I wanted to leave in March 2024 gave 30 day notice so no €50 fee.
However now when I try to get an Urban24 rate using my MPRN with Flogas / Energia / BG they all refuse me based on my MCC12 and now I have to accept the new 5 times a day change in rates.
I use 16% at night, 16% peak and 68% daytime (Work From Home). This works out at 17% BG, 13%Energia, more expensive than Urban24 if I could get it.
I know I could re-educate the family to get up at 4am to turn on washing machine but that wont happen !
I use the CRU average of 4600 kWh per year.
I would love to go back to my old meter.

 

[rustbucket]

How did they move you to a different tarriff
3 months after your contract began?

 

[Leo]

I joined Yuno in August 2023
Unknown to me they moved me from MCC01 Urban24 tariff to MCC12 Urban smart24 Tariff in Dec 2023 .

Perhaps worth complaining to the regulator, they should not have changed your tariff without your approval.

 

[AJAM]

However now when I try to get an Urban24 rate using my MPRN with Flogas / Energia / BG they all refuse me based on my MCC12 and now I have to accept the new 5 times a day change in rates.

I think people are confusing 2 different things.
You have a smart meter. So you have to get a "smart" plan.
But Energia offer a "smart" 24hour plan. 29c/KWh at all times.
It's right there on their website

https://switchto.energia.ie/ChooseMyPlan?Type=Smart&apptype=cos

So can I go back to my old non-Smart 24 hour plan? No you can not.
But you can get one that is exactly the same, except it has the "smart" label in front of it.