Sikh Garda not allowed to wear turban

Sn@kebite said:
But if you went on holiday to a country that made alcohol consumption or transportation illegal, would you be fine with that?
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Err... yes?! :confused:

I would like to think I would have researched the cultural idiosyncrasies of any potential holiday destination, and would make my decision (to go or not to go) accordingly.

If I had made the decision to go, I would, when relevant, respect the laws/customs of the country in question.
 
Also ash only lasts for a day. I am in agreement with Clubman here. A uniform is a uniform, and it is there for a purpose. Once an exception is made, the door is opened for chaos.

Also, religion has no place in a Police force. Their job is to uphold the law. They can practice what they wish when off duty.
 
My point is shnaek that you are straight away making an exception by saying ash is ok, it's only for a day. Either we say no religious symbolism is allowed at all, not even a bit of ash for one day, or we don't - we can't have it both ways. I think the Gardai will be addressing these over the coming year now that they have taken a stance and I'm in agreement with that stance but just think we need to make sure we're not becoming hypocritical here saying ah sure a bit of ash is like a bit of dirt, that's ok but turbans are a no-no.
 
Ceist Beag said:
My point is shnaek that you are straight away making an exception by saying ash is ok, it's only for a day. Either we say no religious symbolism is allowed at all, not even a bit of ash for one day, or we don't - we can't have it both ways. I think the Gardai will be addressing these over the coming year now that they have taken a stance and I'm in agreement with that stance but just think we need to make sure we're not becoming hypocritical here saying ah sure a bit of ash is like a bit of dirt, that's ok but turbans are a no-no.
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Fair enough. No ash then! :)
 
At least you won't here cries of 'racism' when the ash is forbidden from their foreheads.
 
Sn@kebite said:
ClubMan does make sense. But if you went on holiday to a country that made alcohol consumption or transportation illegal, would you be fine with that?
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Yes. In fact I have been to such a county (USA) but just not the parts in which these laws applied! :)
 
The point of the garda uniform is that the gardai are instantly recognisable as being gardai and the hat is the most important part of this uniform. The gardai can wear just their shirts in the summer, or the new jackets etc but one thing is always constant with the gardai and that is the hat. This means in heated/confused situations where people require assistance and reassurance such as bad accidents etc they will instantly recognise that a garda is present - this would not be the case with a Sikh Garda wearing a turban, I believe it would confuse people and as stated a uniform should be uniform.
 
Ceist Beag said:
I think Keelin Shanley made a good point last night on Prime Time - what about Catholics on Ash Wednesday? Currently they're allowed to have the ash on their forehead but surely this is a religious symbol? I'm all for one law for everyone but it has to be for everyone - not a case of some religions being more acceptable than others.
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I don't think that this should be allowed either. They can wear ash on their own time but not on duty.
 
If a Sikh wants to ride a motorbike, do they then have to wear a helmet? If the SIkh lad gets caught on duty during a riot, does he wear head protection or will he go without as rioters rage in the streets of Gorey? Or will he just stand back and carry the water bottle?
 
The head of the Metropolitan Police Sikh Association in London, who has been all over the news recently, stated on "The Last Word" that Sikh officers do remove their turbans if the situation requires it; if they are members of a sub-aqua unit for example.

This is the same guy who is expressing outrage, calling the decision racist. Some posturing going on here IMHO.
 
Agreed, I mean, I see kids here bombing around on Vespas sans protection, all they're good for is gathering in the fragments afer being ploughed out of it by a truck. Better to go quick and easy (sorry, bad taste).

I know it's been said before and leaves the field open to racist nutcases, but how far do we have to go for integration? And do we actually need a Minister for such? It's usually just a natural kind of thing where people just get along in their new country, keeping their yearning for home within their four walls. I have been getting more concerned on visits home (especially last time in the Blanch Centre) where I saw a Muslim woman wearing full cover (black) with gloves, I know this is choice and nothing to do with religion (it's actually against the teachings of the Koran), and it made her stand out even more. Having endured, and partially enjoyed, 2 years in Saudi I thought I'd left that stuff behind, but then it follows me home!

room305 said:
Might be a good time to scrap those ludicrous helmet laws as well ...
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almo said:
how far do we have to go for integration?

...

I have been getting more concerned on visits home (especially last time in the Blanch Centre) where I saw a Muslim woman wearing full cover (black) with gloves, I know this is choice and nothing to do with religion (it's actually against the teachings of the Koran), and it made her stand out even more. Having endured, and partially enjoyed, 2 years in Saudi I thought I'd left that stuff behind, but then it follows me home!
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Why exactly does what clothes other people choose to wear concern you? I'm not mad about beards and double breasted suits but I don't consider it an integration issue or worry unduly about others that sport them.
 
The head of the Metropolitan Police Sikh Association in London, who has been all over the news recently, stated on "The Last Word" that Sikh officers do remove their turbans if the situation requires it; if they are members of a sub-aqua unit for example.
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LOL! I'd hope so!!!
 
Am i allowed go in to hypothetics?
Anyway,
The impression i'm getting is: people think that a uniform is a uniform, and another, other ethnic groups may see the leeway as a weakness in our system and start inventing their own acceptions for other occupations. Is that it?
The way i see it is, some people's lives have been saved by a police officer or garda happening to be near them when they get stabbed or whatever. And what i see is, what if something bad happens and there is by chance a Sikh standing near by and calls for an ambulance or backup and resolves a deadly situation? If my life is possibly to be saved, i don't give a damn what he's wearing on his head. But with no Sikhs being allowed into the force that means less garda on the streets. It's just point of view, and i know the other points make perfect sense.
 
But with no Sikhs being allowed into the force that means less garda on the streets.
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It doesn't mean that at all. I'm quite sure any vacancies can be filled quite easily from other applicants.

I am not against religious freedom but in this context think it is wrong to allow a variation on the normal uniform in order to accommodate a religious belief.
 
almo said:
If a Sikh wants to ride a motorbike, do they then have to wear a helmet?
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In the UK:
Riding Motor Cycles

Sikhs who wear Turbans need not wear crash helmets when they ride Motor Cycles or Scooters. They have been allowed to wear Turban as their only headgear. In accordance with the Motor-Cycle Crash Helmets (Religious Exemption) Act 1976 passed by the British Parliament in 1976, Section 2A "exempts any follower of the Sikh religion while he is wearing a turban" from having to wear a crash helmet.
 
So if they allow a sikh to were his turban then where do you draw the line...what if one of these characters shows up in Templemore some day as a new recruit....
 
almo said:
I know it's been said before and leaves the field open to racist nutcases, but how far do we have to go for integration? And do we actually need a Minister for such?
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I do wonder about the choice of minister for this extremely unnecessary ministry. How much of it was motivated by a desire to salvage his reputation post-kebab incident ("What, me racist? Sure, wasn't I in charge of the Ministry for Integration").

With this ministry and the various quangos it is sure to spawn, the very best we can hope for is that it will be completely ineffectual. In the worst case scenario, it actually prompts some kind of a backlash through its meddling. The more you run around shouting that everybody should ignore each other's differences the more you simply highlight that differences exist.
 
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