Sikh Garda not allowed to wear turban
- Thread starter redbhoy
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I think it's just Ireland is quite racist, and we're so bored over here we need to entertain ourselves with pathetic obnoxious arguments. i think they should be allowed into the force, turbans and all. We complain about crime then when someone wants to join the force we get all racist and deny them access, it's so 'Irish'.
I don't see why special allowances/exceptions should be made for any religious clothing or other paraphenalia in this sort of situation to be honest. I don't consider this to be a racist or sectarian stance. Religious beliefs and affiliations are one's own personal business and should not impinge on such situations. If some people have beliefs that prevent them from making this separation between state secularism and personal religiosity then that's their own problem not the state's or its institutions'.
Z
z109
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According to the five Ks thing (of which the wearing of the turban and having unshorn hair is one), Sikhs should also wear the Kirpan (or small sword). If it is a religious symbol, then we should allow this one aswell...
DublinTexas
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When I deal with a Garda I don't want to know what his/her religous belief are, I want him to enforce the law and his personal believe (what ever it might be) is secondary to his job function.
If the Gentlemen would like to wear his turban, than we would need to allow everybody else to wear his/he religous symbols as well.
So we are going to have woman officers wearing Hijab if they are followers of the Quran or members of the christian splinter groups wearing crosses on their uniform.
Than we give all jewish guards off on Shabbat, allow the pagan worshippers to have their statues on the office desk and maybe we throw in some special symbole for the Atheists.
Were will the line be drawn? If the symbole is below x cm in diameter, than yes, otherwise no? If it's a religion that is mainstream, than sure, but if you are part of the Rastafari movement than no?
And than who says what a relgious symbole is?
What if I believe that the gods of kobol are real and demand that the scripture is followed (even that it might not really exists)? Is that a religon that would allow me to wear a Battlestar Galatica symbol on my uniform?
It's not just a sikh gentlemen wearing his turban, it's about equal treatment for all groups and in the Gardi that means NO religous symbole.
And please, if I hear the "but it works in england" excuse ... Why do we always have to look to them?
If the Gentlemen would like to wear his turban, than we would need to allow everybody else to wear his/he religous symbols as well.
So we are going to have woman officers wearing Hijab if they are followers of the Quran or members of the christian splinter groups wearing crosses on their uniform.
Than we give all jewish guards off on Shabbat, allow the pagan worshippers to have their statues on the office desk and maybe we throw in some special symbole for the Atheists.
Were will the line be drawn? If the symbole is below x cm in diameter, than yes, otherwise no? If it's a religion that is mainstream, than sure, but if you are part of the Rastafari movement than no?
And than who says what a relgious symbole is?
What if I believe that the gods of kobol are real and demand that the scripture is followed (even that it might not really exists)? Is that a religon that would allow me to wear a Battlestar Galatica symbol on my uniform?
It's not just a sikh gentlemen wearing his turban, it's about equal treatment for all groups and in the Gardi that means NO religous symbole.
And please, if I hear the "but it works in england" excuse ... Why do we always have to look to them?
Z
z109
Guest
Could he not wear a patka (under-turban) under his hat? English and Indian crickets wear such a turban when batting (with a helmet on).
Sikhs in dangerous industries in India also wear them under hard hats (by choice, as the turban is generally considered full headgear in India).
Sikhs in dangerous industries in India also wear them under hard hats (by choice, as the turban is generally considered full headgear in India).
It might do. Why take the chance? Next we'll have passionate Dublin supporter Gardai demanding to be allowed wear Dubs jerseys while on duty. As DublinTexas say, where would you draw the line?
I don't think "we're getting all racist" unless you imagine the Sikh religion is only practised by one particular race.
Well I can understand why he'd be disgruntled with although I wonder what form the reassurance took - did he receive confirmation in writing?
I see what you mean. It could be the Catholisism of ireland is being intimidated by the Sikh religion looking for independence or leeway.
Very well said Clubman.
DrMoriarty
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Hear, hear. Isn’t it rather the point of a uniform to be, eh, uniform?
think it is the right decicion, lets not lose our own Irish ways and culture that is loved throughtout the world and envied by many, If he was allowed to wear his head gear then I believe it would be PC gone all togethter mad. I want him to be an honest garda and then I will be happy, if we all left our religion at home the world would be a better and safer place for it.I dont care for religion ,but I do for the law of this Country and a garda is welcome as long as they do a good honest job,
ClubMan does make sense. But if you went on holiday to a country that made alcohol consumption or transportation illegal, would you be fine with that? (Being Irish) I just don't see the big importance to follow the iniform code. Is it not his perfomance as a gard that should be the deciding factor and not how he looks? - My opposition has very good points but if i really wanted to holiday in the M.E. i would like to dress like a westerner and not wear robes and sandles. If they forced me to dress like them or leave i would be uneasy. Would this not be the same thing, or is totally different?
When a Muslim police officer says "I'm sorry, but I won't stand guard outside the US Embassy because of what they do in Iraq etc" do we accommodate them? If we do isn't that making the Gardai a completely irrelevant and pointless force, or lack of. A very good article in the Indo (yes, I said that) asks what is the fuss. Would Mr. O'Leary mind someone turning up in a a full burka because the Ryanair uniform was against their belief?
Snakebite, if you've been to a country where alcohol is outlawed you wouldn't write such nonsense. How many Irish and westerners have worked in Saudi Arabia? Drink was available when you made it yourself, but making an issue out of having no odd-bins nearby? When you're in a foreign country you try to respect the laws.
Snakebite, if you've been to a country where alcohol is outlawed you wouldn't write such nonsense. How many Irish and westerners have worked in Saudi Arabia? Drink was available when you made it yourself, but making an issue out of having no odd-bins nearby? When you're in a foreign country you try to respect the laws.
What I'm saying is that it is only your presumption that a practising Sikh will be of a different race that makes this a racism issue in your eyes. If a white female devotee of Islam joined the Gardai and demanded to wear a Burka and was denied how could it be a racism issue?
Religion and race are two separate issues. If the colour of this man's skin was denying him entry into the Garda forces then that would be racism. Allowing him entry but not allowing him to wear a turban can at best be characterised as religious intolerance (I would characterise it as common sense).
Well if you don't think people need show any respect for local dress codes, how comfortable would you be knowing your wife/daughter/sister was wondering around Tehran dressed in hot pants and a belly top? Nor will you object I'm sure, to the Gardai from my area walking the beat wearing their own ethnic regional dress code complete with white trackie bottoms, hoodie and a baseball cap.
You respect the laws of the country you live in. If you don't like them then you vote to change them or move to a more suitable climate.
I have no problem with the Offaly ethnic dress, but I agree that on Gardai it would not look great.
Ceist Beag
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I think Keelin Shanley made a good point last night on Prime Time - what about Catholics on Ash Wednesday? Currently they're allowed to have the ash on their forehead but surely this is a religious symbol? I'm all for one law for everyone but it has to be for everyone - not a case of some religions being more acceptable than others.
Well you could pass off the ash on ones forehead as a dirt mark, a turbin might be harder to conceal. The beauty of this and many western countries is that you have the freedom to wear what you want and do what you want (within the law), but the issue at hand should only be seen as what it is and that is members of an organisation conforming to its rules and regulations. The man in question has a choice, join and conform or stay as you are. The 'race' card is used so often now its starting to become boring and the english officer how started the row should know better, or is that the problem - he knows better than them irish