Should Turkey be allowed join the EU?

Turkey potential EU accession

I may be wrong but would Turkey's entry into the eu not require a referendum in the same manner as the Nice referendum. I know that this was a bit of a joke in so far as it was rejected first time and then just rerun when it was voted through but it still passed as a result of the population voting in favour.
As for having a party like the UKIP I would agree with you in so far as I think the debate on europe in this country is one sided and biased throughout the media and political parties. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the UKIP principles but we need to hear the other side of the debate and having an anti-europe party would allow problematic issues with europe to be debated and we would then be better informed when it comes to voting.
 
Turkey

were we not told by the Greens, SF and other parties opposed to Nice, that the EU could have taken in another 10 countries regardless of that referendum - they claimed the legislation was already in place to accept more countries from previous treatys.

I tend to believe them on this as the EU power brokers bluffed us into not denying 'poor' countries a place at the EU table, whilst sneaking in other provisions under the guise of Nice.

For all we know, the legislation could already be there to accept Turkey without another treaty - thats how ambiguous the EU is....no one outside of Brussells knows anything thats going on.....
 
turkey

So with regard to the credibility issue, you 're prepared to go with 2 parties, whose grasp of even local politics is tenuous to say the least, ahead of those who've guided the EU to the position it now holds (despite all its obvious problems) geo-politically/economically.
I don't know what to say about the oxymoron whereby you state that "nobody outside of Brussels knows anything that’s going on" but then assert that you believe that the "greens and SF and other parties opposed to Nice" do.
However the "for all we know" argument is so specious that it could be (and often is) used to claim all sorts of things about the federalisation of Europe. What should we do, exert our right to take up arms, decamp to the mountains and plot to overthrow the government.
As Irish people its not hard to find out what the "power brokers" in Brussels are up to, we can turn on or read any number or U.K. based news outlets to find a far from pro-EU version of what's happening. Its just a pity that we don't have such debate in this country to add balance and to give an Irish view point which while it wouldn't be as anti-EU as the U.K. also wouldn't be as pro-EU as Germany.
 
Re: turkey

Very good posts WalterM, interesting perspective and well thought out posts. As with piggy I hadn't thought about the practical voting implications of Turkey in the EU.
I don't know what to say about the oxymoron whereby you state that "nobody outside of Brussels knows anything that’s going on" but then assert that you believe that the "greens and SF and other parties opposed to Nice" do.
Click to expand...
Yea, that's a good one, all-right.
 
Turkey

Listen lads - the greens and SF etc were backed up by many imminent political analysts,independent bodies etc that confirmed that existing treaties already allowed for new members being taken in. And the fact that so many people could argue this fact, whilst Govt. parties said they did need a new treaty to take in extra members, only serves to re-enforce my point about how ambiguous the EU and their treaties are......
So don't get all high and mighty with your 'oxymoron' talk.

And walter - your point on Turkey's voting powers is well made but hardly new to the debate. It's mentioned every time in most media outlets whenever talk turns to Turkey joining the EU. It's just that some people here seem not to be taking too much notice of the debate but try and come across here as authorities on the subject !!!!!
 
Turkey

Interesting to note that Turkey has already assured the EU that adultery will not be crime in their new penal code.
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Piggy why don't you supply the full quote?

The full quote ends with the words "for the time being." In other words they have simply iced their plan to introduce another creeping Sharia type law. They did so solely because they realise how repulsive this idea is to the secularised populations of the west, and that it seriouslt jeopordises their membership of the EU.

As soon as they feel they have secured EU membership they'll forge on with their backward march to the 6th century.

Imagine all those poor fools who've purchased properties in Turkey going down for a bit of nooky with the latest girlfriend they want to impress. They'll stand a good chance of being arrested and imprisoned!

Some holiday destination. :lol
 
Turkey

Keep going Delboy, having now added "many imminent political analysts,independent bodies etc" to the ranks of those who know how the eu works all you need to do is add to this group those who access media outlets. Now the ranks of those who know how the eu works seems to far outweigh those who don't and given that the vote passed it implies that the majority of those who know how the eu works voted in favour. Basic maths does the trick unless I'm still too high and mighty.
 
Re: Turkey

The full quote ends with the words "for the time being."

If they were allowed join the EU they wouldn't be allowed re-introduce this law.
 
Re: Turkey

It's just that some people here seem not to be taking too much notice of the debate but try and come across here as authorities on the subject !!!!!

Given that it's only myself and purple who've confessed to not having realised this...I presume this is directed at us?
What exactly have we ignored in this debate?

Perhaps confessing that you didn't know something is more akin to not pretending to be an authority on any given subject but admitting that you can learn something?
 
Turkey

they wouldn't be allowed re-introduce this law
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Really?!
On what grounds?
Because it offends western sensibilities?

Are you forgetting that many EU countries allow abortion, and they may regard our own abortion laws as backward? It hasn't stopped us from framing the legislation and I'd like to see the EU try to railroad any liberalisation of the abortion laws into this country!

I also think that Turkish atrocities in the Kurdish regions should be remembered before they are ever let into the club. They've made it quite clear they will militarily oppose any moves to set up a Kurdish homeland.
Not in my name!
 
Re: Turkey

The proposed amendment to their law regarding adultery was only put forward by "hard-line Islamist lawmakers from the ruling Justice and Development Party", "a move strongly opposed by Turkish public opinion and European leaders".

I'd suggest, although I am by no means certian of this, that the EU would make Turkey sign up to certain reform before actually letting them in. They would be forced to come up to scratch in terms of human rights abuses etc and not allowed about turn on any of these laws once members...
 
Turkey

I'd suggest, although I am by no means certian of this,(!) that the EU would make Turkey sign up to certain reform before actually letting them in.
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Damn right they oughta!
Thats the nub of it!
How is the Islamic foundation of that society going to sit within a secular europe? To satisfy western values they have to deny their religion! True Islam requires the koran to be obeyed. For muslims there is no worldly authority above that of Allah!

They would be forced to come up to scratch in terms of human rights abuses etc and not allowed about turn on any of these laws once members...
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Dream on....and meanwhile the Kurds get pushed into the background.
 
Re: Turkey

I'm not going to further this particular discussion with you if you insist with your Islamophobic nonsense. Firstly, the entire thread will dissolve into it's usual mire and the mods will just end up having to delete or more than likely lock the thread.
 
Turkey

-Now the ranks of those who know how the eu works seems to far outweigh those who don't and given that the vote passed it implies that the majority of those who know how the eu works voted in favour.-

Well walter, that is one huge assumption. You must mix in far allmightier circles than myself or those hight percentages of people that get polled about the EU for national papers etc and confess to being a bit bewildered about the whole EU and the way it works.

The majority voted NO the first time but that did'nt count - Did the 'maths' not work then???????? You work it out.....
 
Turkey

Surely the maths worked both times.
I was initially referring to the vote that passed second time around.
First time around the majority voted against and it failed, second time they voted for and it passed, I don't know why so many changed sides but I'd suggest that the first vote was somewhat of a protest vote against the government and once the protest had been made people were happy to vote for.
 
Turkey

ElSicko you should realise that this is not about Islam but about Turkey, what other countries does with Islam doesn't mean that what goes on in Turkey. So go stick your head back in to sand as you still don't see the world clear.

I think Turkey should be given some kind of recognition by EU and after sorting all her difficulties out then should be allowed to club as I do beleive it could do Europe more good than bad. After all I would prefer 60-80 million friendly Turks than enemies at our European borders.

Opening doors to Turkey will also open doors to other Turkic markets in the region where Turkey has big influence already. They even speak Turkish :D

If EU close their doors I think they will go their own way and challenge EU with their over 300million Turkish people and some of Middle East, maybe Iran and Iraq eventually. Now that is something I don't want to see.
 
Turkey

They have a poor record on human rights, I would not let any more of them in to the EC in a fit. There are over 2 million of them in Germany already. They have nothing in common with our western values.
 
no hope

and so another good discussion on AAM descends into this. I wouldn't let them in. Those feckin Muslims. They bad. Me good. Me Christian. Beat chest. They no understand good west. Bad. Kill. Wipe them out!

:rolleyes
 
Turkish people feeding the Irish!

Hi James!
As you said there are over 2 million Turkish people living in Germany.Berlin is the town with the second largest number of Turkish inhabitants,more than Ankara and less than Istanbul.And they work hard (building Irish roads -the Ballingcollig bypass in Cork- for example),most of them having no permanent residence status, facing the boot when they have no job for a certain length of time and they pay taxes and feed the poor Irish with EU subsidies via the German exchequer.Germany's taxpayers incl. ALL the contributers are net payers .Irish tax payers are-still- net receivers.
At the moment there goes more money from Turkish passport holders wallets in to Irish passport holders pockets than the other way around.....
I take it that you prefer the status quo.
 
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