Ryanair proposed takeover of Aer Lingus

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rabbit said:
You or I do not know the full facts of what happened to the lady who died on the flight, so are unable to comment on it.
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The issue is not what the unfortunate lady died off - which indeed we can't say - but rather a question of what equipment was on board that may have helped save her life, or at least assisted the nurses on board in their recussitation efforts. This we can indeed comment on. Airlines are required to carry certain items on board in their First Aid Kits, which the nurses requested, yet the Ryanair cabin crew did not provide.
When this was queried after the event Ryanair commented as follows:


There are three possibilities: either the equipment wasn't on board - in which case Ryanair was breaking the law and was grossly negligent, or their cabin crew didn't know how to find such a basic piece of emergency equipment, or maybe they just didn't understand the request to provide it?

Institutional negligence? Poor training? Language difficulties? Well, at least they're friendly and ...er...helpful.......

The Ryanair staff are well paid ......
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Evidence please.....
Perhaps the absence of Irish crew from the Dublin base gives a hint on their pay and conditions?

I very much doubt the statistic you "heard" is true anyway, that there are only 11 Irish Ryanair cabin crew.
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I said DUBLIN BASED RYANAIR CREW - just for your clarification. You are free to doubt it, just as I am free to doubt you. Its a free country - O'Leary isn't in charge yet.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
I don't think its very smart, or appropriate, to use this analogy to describe immigrant workers, especially in the context of patronising comments
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Point taken. No offence meant because it refers to ALL employees, not just 'immigrants' as you've taken it.
But anyhow, I'll remove it to prevent further misinterpretation.
I guess that means you should do the same if you're really offended.
 
But didn't the doctor who treated that poor woman come out and say that he was giving out about the entire airline industry who don't carry the suitable equipment on short haul flights. As far as I can remember he actually praised Ryanair cabin crew and also the pilots for diverting the aircraft and getting them on the ground so quickly.

There are plenty of other things that can be used to beat Michael O Leary and Ryanair about the heads with and I will gladly join you but I don't think using this poor womans tragedy to place some blame on Ryanair cabin crew or Ryanair is appropriate.
 
Sunny said:
But didn't the doctor who treated that poor woman come out and say that he was giving out about the entire airline industry who don't carry the suitable equipment on short haul flights.
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Have you got a link to that comment?
If the quote is true (after we see the link) I'd have to say the -nurse/doctor - is in fact wrong, since, as Ryanair themselves said, the recussitation equipment is ALREADY meant to be on board all aircraft!

As far as I can remember he actually praised Ryanair cabin crew and also the pilots for diverting the aircraft and getting them on the ground so quickly.
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Well, the pilots certainly did a good job. As usual.

I'm certainly not "using it to beat Michael O Leary and Ryanair about the heads" - perish the thought!
I'm using it to beat Rabbit about the head! Just kidding.

That report is in the public domain. Rabbit said (rather patronisingly actually) that he found Ryanair cabin crew to be 'friendly'. My point is there's more to the job of CCM than just being 'friendly' and this unfortunate event proves it.

Anyhow, this is indeed rather a side track, so why not drop it?
 
My Oh My - it just got FAR more interesting!

The Ryanair pilots have now lodged a PAY CLAIM with the LRC, looking for PARITY with their new colleagues in Aer Lingus!
Hah! Ducksie will be apopleptic at this - and I'm sure his Ryanair Shareholders (the BIG ONES) will now be asking him just WTF he's up to.

Just hilarious stuff.
Read it and weep....RTE News Flash
 
MugsGame said:
Meaningless comparison -- Ryanair outsource all of the ground-crew functions.
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Fact is, Ryanair has 3 times more planes than Air Lingus, carries four times more passengers than Air Lingus, but yet Air Lingus has 13% more staff than Ryanair.
 

'Ryanair pilots would have to take a pay cut to align themselves with their equivalent opposite numbers in Aer Lingus,' a statement from the airline said.

If only RTE was as efficient as Ryanair, instead of gobbling up taxpayers / licence payers money as well as enjoying a near monopoly, just like Air Lingus in the bad old days.
 
Fact is, Ryanair has 3 times more planes than Air Lingus, carries four times more passengers than Air Lingus, but yet Air Lingus has 13% more staff than Ryanair.
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Rabbit, you're forgetting to count the thousands of contract slaves - sorry, workers - that Ryanair needs to keep the show on the road.

The unionised workforce was the reason everyone believed O'Leary wouldn't touch ALT with a bargepole.
Hence the shock and awe when he did.
But now the back lash is happening.

Perhaps Aer Lingus will become Ryanairs Poison Pill.

Can't wait to see what happens when the Ryanair pilots join IALPA to form a pilots 'Super Union' in the states new Private Monopoly Carrier!!

In the past O'Liary could play the two off against each other - keep HIS jets flying if the Aer Lingus unions were to threaten strike.
Now what happens WHEN THEY ARE ALL ON STRIKE TOGETHER?
The country grinds to a halt!
DOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
 
Meccano said:
Now what happens WHEN THEY ARE ALL ON STRIKE TOGETHER?
The country grinds to a halt!
DOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
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Why would the country grind to a halt?
I fly about 50 times a year. About 40 of those flights are not with Aer Lingus or Ryanair.
Personally I avoid using Ryanair whenever I can as I try to fly in and out of where ever I am going on the same day and the cattle car type waiting areas in Ryanair dominated airports are a big turn off. That said I see no reason why Ryanair should not be allowed to buy Aer Lingus. They both compete with other airlines and do not compete with each other on many routes.
 
Purple said:
Why would the country grind to a halt?
I fly about 50 times a year. About 40 of those flights are not with Aer Lingus or Ryanair.
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Tell us where you fly, and who with. Are you talking about European destinations, UK in particular?

I can guarentee you that as soon as Ryanair controls Aer Lingus they will start a war of attrition, starting with all Europe/UK competition into Dublin, with the aim of turning it (and later Cork and Shannon) into an exclusively RyanairLingus dominated base.

Transatlantic routes will follow within weeks. The only competitioin he has there are lame duck legacy US carriers.

It's the very ESSENCE of the Ryanair model to COMPETE AGGRESSIVELY to drive out competitors. Its the nature of the beast.

Of course it'll be dressed up in the usual garbage about 'great deals for the consumer' (perhaps so, in the short term) 'we're promoting competition' etc.
But their eventual complete domination of Irelands air routes will be very very BAD for consumers, and competition in the long term.

Yes, yes, I know you'll say it won't happen - he's such a great guy, we can trust him - but the history of O'Learys behaviour has ALWAYS been to attack and eliminate ALL competition. Buzz, easyjet, GO, and lately Alitalia - all have been driven out of Dublin by Ryanair - or swallowed up and dismantled.

Ryanairlingus will have 70% to 80% of traffic into London from day one.
After a year - it'll be 99.9% on that specific route. No question.
Then the squeeze really comes on - government and consumers held to ransom by a private monopoly.
Do you think O'Leary will continue to allow 'de guvmint' to dictate to him when he has the countries only air transport links in his hands?

In that future monopolistic scenario the country is LITERALLY at the mercy of O'Leary - or even his unions in a strike scenario.

Well if the above scenario doesn't even vaguely worry you - party on.

At the moment, if you have a ticket dispute with Ryanair and O'Leary tells you to 'feck off' - you CAN!
What will you do when there's NO ONE ELSE to 'feck off' to? Swim?
 
Meccano said:
Buzz, easyjet, GO, and lately Alitalia - all have been driven out of Dublin by Ryanair - or swallowed up and dismantled.
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Do alitalia not fly into Dublin anymore? Shame, they were normally much cheaper than aer lingus too.
 
Yep, they're gone.
And an interesting point derives from your assertion about them being cheaper than Aer Lingus.
If thats true - they should've been full all the time, eh? And making LOADSAMONEY!

What went wrong?

[broken link removed]
 
Meccano said:
Yep, they're gone.
And an interesting point derives from your assertion about them being cheaper than Aer Lingus.
If thats true - they should've been full all the time, eh? And making LOADSAMONEY!

What went wrong?

[broken link removed]
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I found them cheaper in general, as i also find iberia cheaper when flying to madrid (pre-ryanair starting up soon). That doesn't mean that it's always the case, nor does it mean that flights are always full. I have flown with both aer lingus and al italia back and forward from Italy many times on half full flights, and often wondered why there was a need for so many flights, ah well, one less half full unprofitable flight can only be good for the environment eh?
 
It's the very ESSENCE of the Ryanair model to COMPETE AGGRESSIVELY to drive out competitors. Its the nature of the beast.
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anyone in business who doesn't want to put their competition out of business is going to fail.
 
I always find when people type in bold or CAPITALS it really gets their point accross.
 
heads Mick wins/ tails Mick wins. The pilots could lose big time if he decided to dump his shares and the price plummets. unlikely. but from his point of view: pilots have 2%, union 12-15% government ( you and me, by the way ) have 25%. so effectively no other airline can take a controlling interest. and as a major shareholder if they profits dip.... and divies are not up to scratch.... he can cause a rumpus at the agm and ask why the airline is overstaffed and under worked ( his opion as a shareholder, naturally) and what are the board going to do about it? great craic altogether. and he hardly had to lift a finger for the government and a/l walked strainght into it blindly. Gas.
 
Meccano said:
Now what happens WHEN THEY ARE ALL ON STRIKE TOGETHER?
The country grinds to a halt!
DOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
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A good argument for not having unions at all there. What happens when the ESB goes on strike ( like a decade or 2 ago ) ? The country grinds to a halt! What happens when ESB do not go on strike ( like nowadays ) ? The ESB workers are still massively overpaid by you and me, Joe citizen, because they blackmailed the state, and the weak Irish govt gave in. Thank God O'Leary should be able to stand up to the unions. If an airline ever went on strike, govts should make it easy for any other airlines with spare capacity to fly the routes immediately, so the country does not grind to a halt.
 
rabbit said:
A good argument for not having unions at all there.
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Good arguments aside - how do you plan to get rid of them?

Thank God O'Leary should be able to stand up to the unions.
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He doesn't have any unions - but he's about to acquire some. I predict a steep learning curve for all sides!

If an airline ever went on strike, govts should make it easy for any other airlines with spare capacity to fly the routes immediately, so the country does not grind to a halt.
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Competing airlines are always free to make such moves - no encouragement necessary beyond the fact of an 'open field'.
However, maybe you haven't noticed it - but there's an aviation boom on at the moment. Nobody has dozens (hundreds?) of spare aircraft sitting around doing nothing but hoping for strikes to provide some work.

Any more bright ideas?
 
Meccano said:
However, maybe you haven't noticed it - but there's an aviation boom on at the moment. Nobody has dozens (hundreds?) of spare aircraft sitting around doing nothing but hoping for strikes to provide some work.
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Don't know about dozens or hundreds but there is presumably some spare capacity? For example, I went on a package recently served by charter airline eirjet and because they could not fill the slots with their own planes/crews we actually went out with Slovakia Air and back with Icelandic Air.
 
What does 'couldn't fill the slots with their own planes' mean exactly?

If they hired-in it was probably because eirjets own a/c was unserviceable for tech reasons, or they had crewing shortages.

If it was a 'package holiday' with eirjet then it was a chartered aircraft, and the airline was contracted with the tour operator to provide the service.

Have you any idea how much it costs airlines to hire in like that?
It's EXPENSIVE.
VERY EXPENSIVE!

The fact that two different hire-in operators were used just shows how difficult it is to locate spare capacity these days.
Which is why it is so expensive.

But, in your case eirjet HAD to do it - contractual commitment! Do it, or get sued...and never get another charter booking from the tour operator.

What makes you think it'll happen when NOBODY has any legal responsibility to provide a flight?

If some airline does the passengers 'a favour' by running a few flights - if they can squeeze some out of their own schedule - be prepared to get royally screwed (hire-in rates) by the airline, and be prepared to FIGHT for the 'privilege' of buying a seat.
 
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