I suppose the difference is that no member of parliament in the UK is celebrating Pat Finucanes murder in the way that the TD from the Child Killers is celebrating the murder of the soldiers at Kilmichael.Stanley's comment was stupid.
In a historical context, on the anniversary of Kilmichael, he is totally within his right to make a comparison between the Kilmichael ambush and Warrenpoint insofar that the partition of Ireland was not the solution to end our troubles on this island.
The manner in which he made his comparison was stupid, in tweet form and with an obvious dig at the British while lording over the graves of the dead.
It is all the more regrettable that it may have detracted somewhat from the abhorrent and insulting decision of the British government not hold a public inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane.
In scenes echoing the events of Collins Squad on Bloody Sunday, Finucanes front door was smashed down and shot twice and as he lay on the floor another 12 bullets were fired into his face from close range.
All in front of his family.
I suppose the difference is that no member of parliament in the UK is celebrating Pat Finucanes murder
Given that the nominal leader of his party frequently says that there is no hierarchy amongst the victims of the Troubles I presume he, along with Mary Lou, is happy to equate the murder of Pat Finucane and the Para's killed at Kilmichael.
I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise.They might not have celebrated it publicly, but Douglas Hoggs comments, Home Office Minister at the time, that "some solicitors were sympathetic to the IRA" in House of Commons was an official briefing and not an off-the-cuff remark. That Finucane was murdered three weeks later by agents of the British State says to me that while there was no public glorification of it, there was some chinking of glasses at high levels of power.
They may not admit it publicly, obviously, as they refuse to initiate a public inquiry recommended by their own Supreme Court, but privately I think anyone would celebrate achieving their goals?
Does that mean that there is a hierarchy of victims of the Troubles?Finucane was a civilian, not a combatant.
Does that mean that there is a hierarchy of victims of the Troubles?
had no mandate from anyone to murder soldiers or anyone else.
The Sinn Fein of the 1920's
Their goal was achievable
and they didn't deliberately murder children or civilians in general.
Okay. The Child Killers disagree with you. When it suits them.For me yes, innocent civilians first, combatants second.
True. Every IRA killing was murder. Most Security Force killings were not.Nobody had a mandate to murder anybody.
True. SF/IRA carried on for 30 years without and mandate, popular support or retrospective support. They didn't even have the support of a majority of their community.Popular support arose from the ashes of the 1916 Rising, a military coup that had no mandate, no popular support, only retrospective support.
No, they gained the freedom of what is now this country. Michael Collins and his side betrayed the Nationalist population of what is now the province of Northern Ireland. Maybe he was right, maybe he wasn't.They failed in their goal, as has every military effort, before and after, to remove British rule from the island of Ireland.
They didn't target civilians in the way Sinn Fein/IRA did. Suggesting that they did is nonsense. They certainly killed 17 year olds but they didn't murder 3 year olds and 12 year olds who were are the shop with their parents.The "good old" IRA of the WoI engaged in sectarian murder, kidnapping of civilians, torture and murder of alleged informers and disappeared bodies of the dead. Some as young as 17yrs of age, children in fact, and quite deliberate so.
Okay. The Child Killers disagree with you. When it suits them.
True. Every IRA killing was murder. Most Security Force killings were not.
No, they gained the freedom of what is now this country.
They didn't target civilians in the way Sinn Fein/IRA did. Suggesting that they did is nonsense. They certainly killed 17 year olds but they didn't murder 3 year olds and 12 year olds who were are the shop with their parents.
The IRA and their political wing Sinn Fein. When the Army Council are not the power behind the throne and SF's leaders don't go to the funerals of murderers and they don't have former bomb makers in theri ranks I'll stop calling them that. It's the same as someone who used to rape children and doesn't anymore but is unapologetic about their crimes should be called out for it, as should the people who facilitate and support him.Who are the 'child killers'?
Sorry, I was mixing myself up. I meant to say Warrenpoint, not Kilmichael.So you think the ambush at Kilmichael and the basically the whole WoI was an illegal murderous campaign?
I know. As I said Collins sold out the North.Yes, but 'this country' was not their goal.
Indeed. Clarke andThomas Clarke, veteran leader of the 1916 Rising and participant of the Fenian campaign of 1881 to 85 planted bombs in public areas such as train stations, town halls and bridges. In one such incident a 14yr old boy was killed from a bomb attack. Peversely, Clarke has had bridges and train stations named after him in this country.
That is oh so last millenium.insofar that the partition of Ireland was not the solution to end our troubles on this island.
The final solution that Joe is referring to is based on partition, so long as the majority in NI so wish to be partitioned.Joe Biden said:We have worked too hard to finally have Ireland solved
The Child Killers relationship with democracy is casual enough. It's a means to an end for them.That is oh so last millenium.
The solution is based on partition, so long as the majority in NI so wish to be partitioned.
That is oh so last millenium.
The final solution that Joe is referring to is based on partition, so long as the majority in NI so wish to be partitioned.
They aren't in the parliament of this country and don't have aspirations to rule us.The child killer reference is odd, insofar that it is specific to Sinn Fein only, but not associated with any other protagonists of the conflict, namely the British State who also killed children directly, or through their loyalist proxies, and then protected the killers from seeing justice.
NI voted Remain because a sufficient minority of unionists saw that as the rational choice (nationalists were almost 100% Remain as they saw it as anti Brit). You seriously misunderstand the unionist mindset if you think even a fraction of this minority of unionists put their EUness ahead of their Britishness. A border poll would fail now for sure. If I were a unionist I would be pushing for such a poll but on the same terms of the Scottish ref i.e. a once in a generation event.Yep, and given the majority in NI do not wish to be partitioned from the EU, perhaps it is time to ask the question about partition in Ireland?
They aren't in the parliament of this country and don't have aspirations to rule us.
Their politicians don't carry the coffins and go to the funerals of the people who planted the bombs.By any definition, they are child killers and still have the apparatus in place to deny justice to the victims.
No we don't. As a State we recognise that they are not our people. You or I may not like that but that's the way it is.And we as a State, recognise their legitimacy to govern over our people.
You seriously misunderstand the unionist mindset if you think even a fraction of this minority of unionists put their EUness ahead of their Britishness. A border poll would fail now for sure. If I were a unionist I would be pushing for such a poll but on the same terms of the Scottish ref i.e. a once in a generation event.
United Irelanders only need to get it right once, Partitionists need to win all the time.
IRA to Maggie after Brighton bomb said:We only need to get lucky once, you need to be lucky all the time.
Their politicians don't carry the coffins and go to the funerals of the people who planted the bombs.
No we don't. As a State we recognise that they are not our people. You or I may not like that but that's the way it is.
See it's that sort of twisted logic that makes the Shinners unelectable for people who are real republicans and democrats in that they understand what both things actually mean.I just use the tried and trusted method, if you kill a child you are a child killer...simple enough. Political status or funeral record attendance is all whataboutery.
I haven't heard any Tory or Labour politician justifying the action of the UVF.
I haven't heard any Tory or Labour politician justifying the action of the UVF.
See it's that sort of twisted logic that makes the Shinners unelectable for people who are real republicans and democrats in that they understand what both things actually mean.
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