I knew of someone who worked fully from home while his colleagues were working partly from home partly in the office (to reduce numbers in the office during covid). After covid, he would not go back to the office because he thought he could do his job from home. The reality was that when he needed something physically checked, he had to ask one of his colleagues. They were obliging but also noticing that they had to use their own time to help him with his job.
Return to office - but I want to remain fully remote
- Thread starter Samba ramba
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I agree.
Food delivery and supply, power supply and sewage/water supply are the real essential services. The rest are less important. And as I said many time during Covid the nearest front line that people are working on is in Ukraine.
Annieindublin
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If I was worried about career development I’d be in the office regularly and make sure I was visible etc.
But I’m at a stage where I don’t worry about that, I have other priorities. Not commuting and having a quiet workspace are more important than a promotion (which isn’t on the horizon anyway).
But I’m at a stage where I don’t worry about that, I have other priorities. Not commuting and having a quiet workspace are more important than a promotion (which isn’t on the horizon anyway).
I think the enforced WFH during COVID has also changed expectations of productivity. Yes, I can deliver x if I am working in a quiet environment, logging in at all hours because my laptop is out and still running rather than packed away or in the office, or I can work while my kids are sick and home, or if I am sick and can't make it to the office etc etc.
But in reality, a lot of jobs involve interaction with others which might not be productive on a task basis but build relationships which solidify working relationships and lead to greater overall productivity than individual contributions. I may have drunk the Kool Aid a bit but having gone through a Return to Office this year, I am really seeing the benefits on a holistic basis for me and the people I work with.
But in reality, a lot of jobs involve interaction with others which might not be productive on a task basis but build relationships which solidify working relationships and lead to greater overall productivity than individual contributions. I may have drunk the Kool Aid a bit but having gone through a Return to Office this year, I am really seeing the benefits on a holistic basis for me and the people I work with.
thedaddyman
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Joys of working for a multinational with team members all over the world means that sitting in an office provides very little for me. What I do miss out on is the office gossip or leaning against someones desk to have a moan at the world and the Board of Directors etc. Having said that, a bunch of us have a weekly Friday morning cup of coffee virtual chat instead when we put the world to rights and also collectively deal with the "do you know how to" questions on corporate bureaucracy etc, inkd of things you'd have leant over someones desk in an office to ask them.
To be honest, I've built great relationships with people who I only speak to on Teams over the last few years. I do enjoy the quiet workspace at home,. bigger challenge is more conference calls and also how to stay away from the biscuit barrel.
To be honest, I've built great relationships with people who I only speak to on Teams over the last few years. I do enjoy the quiet workspace at home,. bigger challenge is more conference calls and also how to stay away from the biscuit barrel.
Agree with most of that. Having reasonable and realistic managers has definitely smoothed our return to the office. The emphasis on return to work has been on collaboration and engagement rather than vague and threatening generalisations about underperformance to attendance tracking. For the OP, it sounds like you have manger difficulties rather than WFH difficulties. It may be worth pursuing a team change before pulling the plug, particularly if your manager (or you) is not receptive to an adult discussion about the matter.
One of the reasons our transition to WFH was so successful during Covid was that the office was already on WFH one day a week. The reason for that was the office floorplate was being maximised, 1.2 staff per desk I believe it was. They introduced a desk booking system whereby you might or might not get to sit with your team (never mind at a desk) on the days you were in. Open plan too, noisy, disruptive and the irregularity day to day. It was atrocious. Far more pleasant now. We are mandated 2 days a week, which is fine for me. One of those days is a Monday or Friday for me, as its nice and quiet in the office
.I think for most jobs hybrid with a 2-3 days in office is beneficial long-term for overall business and organisational smoothness, relationships, connectedness and culture. Many individuals don't agree because they prioritise themselves during work time rather than their employer's goals which I get, but it's crazy not to appreciate that the business will understandably have different priorities and if you are on their time and being paid to deliver their priorities, that's their call.
i would say fully remote can work well (albeit not optimum) for very high performers. But despite everyone thinking they are a high performer, it's really 5-10% max of your workforce. Sorry to the other 95! Very few people have the inner security, honesty and self awareness to recognise or admit they may procrastinate of lack self discipline, and think they are doing "just fine". It's well known that most poor performers / strugglers think they are doing "just fine" and it's actually the top performers who (incorrectly) often feel their performance isn't quite stellar enough or are concerned about it.
i would say fully remote can work well (albeit not optimum) for very high performers. But despite everyone thinking they are a high performer, it's really 5-10% max of your workforce. Sorry to the other 95! Very few people have the inner security, honesty and self awareness to recognise or admit they may procrastinate of lack self discipline, and think they are doing "just fine". It's well known that most poor performers / strugglers think they are doing "just fine" and it's actually the top performers who (incorrectly) often feel their performance isn't quite stellar enough or are concerned about it.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles BukowskiStick to your boundaries if you feel the boss is being pushy cos they could just expect more. The boss isnt listening maybe its just that you're 10 min away which isn't a fair excuse but I think they can just want a presence sometimes. Lots of ppl who work from home say they get little done or its more a catch with on work stuff with colleagues when they go in. If thats how it is what can you do?
Isn’t this not the real reason why the person wants to remain wfh….it’s so much easier to organise your life around school going kids if you wfh? Imagine the stress getting your kids up for school at 6ish in the morning, feed them drop off to the crèche/childminder and then commute to work.rush out the door for 16.30 to collect from crèche and get the evening tasks done at home? Add in the additional costs of commute and childcare, who in their right mind would work in the office if they could get away with wfh with the same salary?
I remember doing it and I don’t know how we managed it…it was a dogs life in ways.
In my work the most senior guy wants to see people in the office. He regards those ear reluctant to be there as not being team players as they’re not building culture. If you have any aspirations to manage people you should be mindful of that view as I get the impression this is not uncommon in lots of industries. . Personally I think if my team are in one day a week with me it’s enough but he’s pushing hard to change our 50% in, all in one day to all in two days. He’s hard work as any contrary view is perceived as not being a company player.
I have to say, the arguments made by managers and companies about returning to the office are laughable. I hear all the buzz words about collaboration, relationship building, teamwork, common objectives, shared vision, productivity and it is all a crock of........
Let's me honest here. It is about companies all having a large office footprint that is not utilised fully or efficiently and it annoys them. It is also about outdated backward managers thinking they need to micromanage every single employee including highly professional and efficient ones. They think everyone is at home watching Judge Judy and the Chase.
I go into office one day a week and they are pushing for more. When I go in, 90% of meetings are still on teams because the company never valued or invested in proper 'collaberation' or meeting areas up to now. A large % of people resent being made go to the office so their attitude stinks when it is there. Just turns into giant moanfest. There is no increase in interaction with senior managers apart from seeing them walk around a crowded office space with a smile on their face as their minions work away under their watchful eye.
We have hot desks that are booked every day and open to all so no guarantee we will be next to team members. Often end up sitting in middle of people from another team who spend the day talking on a giant online teams meeting.
Needless to say, I won't be doing more than 1 day a week......if that damages my career so be it. I value other parts of my life more. That's my choice. Just like someone else is free to choose to go in every single day.....
Let's me honest here. It is about companies all having a large office footprint that is not utilised fully or efficiently and it annoys them. It is also about outdated backward managers thinking they need to micromanage every single employee including highly professional and efficient ones. They think everyone is at home watching Judge Judy and the Chase.
I go into office one day a week and they are pushing for more. When I go in, 90% of meetings are still on teams because the company never valued or invested in proper 'collaberation' or meeting areas up to now. A large % of people resent being made go to the office so their attitude stinks when it is there. Just turns into giant moanfest. There is no increase in interaction with senior managers apart from seeing them walk around a crowded office space with a smile on their face as their minions work away under their watchful eye.
We have hot desks that are booked every day and open to all so no guarantee we will be next to team members. Often end up sitting in middle of people from another team who spend the day talking on a giant online teams meeting.
Needless to say, I won't be doing more than 1 day a week......if that damages my career so be it. I value other parts of my life more. That's my choice. Just like someone else is free to choose to go in every single day.....
Sounds like the workplace from hell.
thedaddyman
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I'm fortunate in that my company moved to remote first and we closed most of our offices around the world as a result. When we do meet up, it tends to be the most unproductive day of the week as it turns into a moan-fest/did you see the game at the weekend discussion etc. There are times when it is right and needed to meet up but not for day to day stuff.
As a manager, I've had to change how I approach things. In the past, I was your classic "must be at your desk at 9am" kind of guy, reasonably flexible as long as someone wasn't taking the mick but you were there, 9-5. Now, it's about output. If it suits someone to start at 7am and then take an hour out to do the school run, fine by me, as long as the work is getting done. Only 3 rules are that they they don't miss client calls and if they need to take a personal hour here or there, fine but block your diary. Secondly, keep the customer happy. I've taken an afternoon off to watch the kids play a match (with my bosses blessing) and caught up with work in the evening.
What we've actually discovered about home working is that it really helped identify those who were not really producing anything. Only downside is for new people being onboarded, that is more difficult.
That’s really the problem.
WFH is fine for people at an established stage of their life/career who have established networks of colleagues/clients they can just as easily tap into remotely.
It’s much more difficult for new entrants who are trying to navigate the challenges of the workplace without the benefits of the casual interactions we have traditionally taken for granted and which we don’t necessarily value.
Annieindublin
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We had people join and leave in covid and we struggled to bond with them. It takes a lot more work when you can’t rely on casual chats over coffee and lunch. Where meeting invites have to be sent rather than just asking a question. So I do get the benefits for an organisation.
What it also displayed for us is that some managers struggle with normal interpersonal stuff. Like comments in iMessage about where someone was if the green dot wasn’t above their name.. dunno, having a wee, reading a piece of paper rather than a screen… stuff they would never have asked in the office..,one guy always had caps lock on.I WAS LOOKING FOR YOU WERE NOT AVAILABLE. I’d laugh it off but other peeps were upset and got stressed by this “shouting”. Easily sorted once he was aware but it took someone more experienced to tell him. New hires were intimidated.
Sick leave has almost vanished, I don’t mean big stuff, but days when you’ve a bad cold, you can stay online at home, keep work ticking over. No need to vanish for the entire day or two.
What it also displayed for us is that some managers struggle with normal interpersonal stuff. Like comments in iMessage about where someone was if the green dot wasn’t above their name.. dunno, having a wee, reading a piece of paper rather than a screen… stuff they would never have asked in the office..,one guy always had caps lock on.I WAS LOOKING FOR YOU WERE NOT AVAILABLE. I’d laugh it off but other peeps were upset and got stressed by this “shouting”. Easily sorted once he was aware but it took someone more experienced to tell him. New hires were intimidated.
Sick leave has almost vanished, I don’t mean big stuff, but days when you’ve a bad cold, you can stay online at home, keep work ticking over. No need to vanish for the entire day or two.
Yes, I really struggle to see how new entrants can be trained, coached, mentored on an informal basis as would have been the case in the office. I used to work in a busy environment where people would literally grab someone more experienced passing by to request for help.
I also think that informal interactions are very important to come with ideas and solutions. I remember a very effective manager that “used” smoking breaks to discuss ideas and problems with all levels of the organisation. He would discussed things with people that he would not really have the opportunity to interact otherwise (new trainees, operators…) If he had been coming to them directly in the office, I am pretty sure he would not have had the same contacts/feedbacks from them.
A lot can be learn when you start from the way people act and interact. I don’t know how I would have learned out of college without observing how other people were doing,… I don’t think it is that easy online, I think that your experience is then limited to people you interact directly with.
I would also think that it can be very isolated, once again probably more when you start your career. I am self employed and work from home. I have been working mainly online for 8/10 years and fully online since covid.
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That's the main reason why employers want workers back at least for 2 or 3 days a week so they can impart the skills to new workers the same way they learnt themselves. It's amazing people cannot see that, it's actually the tech companies and us multinationals that saw this immediately when WFH was mandated by government, the new hires were not being trained
A bit partial to "A Place in the Sun" myself