Replacing Solid Fuel Open Fire

lff12 said:
FWIW the study most of the recent news is based on is here
Its based on evidence from Denmark and lab studies and the relevant detail on page 6
Basically a stove installed before about 5 years ago would have 150 pm2.5 g pollutant per GJ house heating compared to 0.6g for gas boiler. Oil boiler has 0.1g. Open fire would have 1367g, wood pellet boiler has 55g and heat pump 1g.

So yes, the reduction over an open fire is considerable - 150g rather than 1367g. And I'm hearing people taking what they are hearing in the press to mean that burning in an open fire is somehow "safer" which is clearly not true. And I presume don't know if this is controlled for fuel quality - Mickey burning the half dried bits of last years ash tree is clearly going to emit far more PM2.5 than a controlled fuel with under 20% moisture content.
Click to expand...
Thanks I agree 100%. Meanwhile Irish transport emissions have grown 150% since 1990, yet let's focus on wood burning stoves emissions to solve air pollution. Farce
 
redstar said:
Interesting conversation.

Would anyone recommend using wood-burning stoves which now must conform to Ecodesign legislation (since Jan 2022)

www.fireplacesireland.ie

Ecodesign

Ecodesign is due to come into effect on 1st January 2022 for woodburning and multifuel stoves. Read this article for for information.
www.fireplacesireland.ie www.fireplacesireland.ie

New standards for domestic solid fuels announced on International Clean Air Day

New standards for domestic solid fuels for next year announced on International Clean Air Day
www.gov.ie www.gov.ie
Click to expand...
All common sense.
 
Turf now not readily available either. I know quite a few people still with open fires. The newer wood pellet stoves are much more expensive so I don’t think many will be bought given the cost of living crisis we are in. Anyone with UFH has big scary bills. What to do ?
 
fidelcastro said:
Thanks I agree 100%. Meanwhile Irish transport emissions have grown 150% since 1990, yet let's focus on wood burning stoves emissions to solve air pollution. Farce
Click to expand...
Perhaps the greater farce here is that you don't seem to realise the solid fuel burning here is a much bigger source of PM 2.5, and that's only getting worse.

EPA monitoring has shown that solid fuel burning is responsible for as much as 82% of fine particulate pollution in our towns.
 
bankrupt said:
I agree with you. I would also imagine that the big drop in smoking & drinking and general improvements in healthcare since 1990 would make it very hard to determine just the effect of the reduction in air pollution. That said, everyone old enough will remember how awful the smog was in Dublin at one time - far worse I would suggest than the output of a modern solid fuel stove burning dry wood?

I think I am coming to the conclusion that although it is a laudable goal to reduce air pollution in general and there is a measurable population level health impact, a properly operated wood burning stove probably does not represent any measurable health risk. Is that a naive opinion?
Click to expand...
Well there is a risk, but there's also a risk in frying sausages in a pan with lots of oil and not opening a window or turning on (or perhaps not having) the extractor hood. From reading the study the European report is based on, its clear that burning anything in an open fire is far worse than using a wood fired stove. In any case there are two sets of risks: firstly the immediate risks to the residents in the home of the stove or open fire, and secondarily the air pollution to ALL caused by a fairly small group.
In any case, given the politics around the turf collecting debacle, and the fact that a significant % of solid fuel users here are in lower income groups, I suspect the focus will be on limiting types of fuel that can be burned rather than banning the practice entirely. Much of the risk comes from burning wood not properly dried.
 
Leo said:
Perhaps the greater farce here is that you don't seem to realise the solid fuel burning here is a much bigger source of PM 2.5, and that's only getting worse.

EPA monitoring has shown that solid fuel burning is responsible for as much as 82% of fine particulate pollution in our towns.
Click to expand...
hold on, hold off your high horse, good for you to have the time.
The majority of the home heating sources in these towns are likely 20% efficient open hearth types , rather than 80% closed stove types, ergo switching to solid stove heating would be beneficial .

Perhaps if the focus in these locations had been on building thermally efficient dwellings in the first place, the PM values would not be as high, considering the temperate climate we live in.
 
Last edited:
fidelcastro said:
hold on, hold off your high horse, good for you to have the time.
Click to expand...
If you don't understand the fundamentals of your own argument, why assume those who know better are on a high horse?

fidelcastro said:
The majority of the home heating sources in these towns are likely 20% efficient open hearth types , rather than 80% closed stove types, ergo switching to solid stove heating would be beneficial .
Click to expand...
Again, you're wrong. The majority of heating in these towns is not open fires, it's primarily gas & oil with heat pumps an ever increasing heat source. Only 16% of Irish homes use solid fuels as the primary heat source, a quarter of them citing turf as their main fuel.
 
I was referring to the source of the particulate matter, in the EPA report, if the source is wood /peat/coal then its most likely these originate from open fires, rather than multi fuel stoves.

As Tommy wrote to you earlier I'm out.
 
Last edited:
fidelcastro said:
I was referring to the source of the particulate matter, in the EPA report, if the source is wood /peat/coal then its most likely these originate from open fires, rather than multi fuel stoves.

As Tommy wrote to you earlier I'm out.
Click to expand...
Seeing as you believed transport should have been of more concern here, that's for the best.
 
lff12 said:
Well there is a risk, but there's also a risk in frying sausages in a pan with lots of oil and not opening a window or turning on (or perhaps not having) the extractor hood. From reading the study the European report is based on, its clear that burning anything in an open fire is far worse than using a wood fired stove. In any case there are two sets of risks: firstly the immediate risks to the residents in the home of the stove or open fire, and secondarily the air pollution to ALL caused by a fairly small group.
In any case, given the politics around the turf collecting debacle, and the fact that a significant % of solid fuel users here are in lower income groups, I suspect the focus will be on limiting types of fuel that can be burned rather than banning the practice entirely. Much of the risk comes from burning wood not properly dried.
Click to expand...
There is a risk but for the time being it seems to be be very difficult to quantify what the actual risk to health is - comparisons with packets of cigarettes just seem glib and unscientific. It is practical and sensible to take reasonable precautions like only using the right kind(s) of fuel and completely avoiding open fires (which in any case are very inefficient sources of heat of course) but until we understand the actual impact on health I think we should take the media reports with a grain of salt. I am not sure if I would go so far as saying that it is scaremongering, perhaps more accurately we are seeing the conflation of really dirty/risky heat sources with those that are cleaner and less risky. For me the jury is still out.
 
Got two quotes today for changing open fire to stove, well one of those inset things rather than an actual free standing stove, €3,350 and €3,550 Whatever about the rights and wrongs of burning stuff I don't think it's worth it to me at that price. I have plenty of heat from the small open fire so more heat is not a selling point for me, it was more about less mess I was looking for but don't think I could justify it at that cost. Might look for a couple more quotes just to see.
 
I presume it’s an insert multi fuel type stove of around 7kw that you were quoted for. That price seems outlandish. It’s a days work to fit one. I would definitely shop around for further quotes.
 
Mamamia22 said:
I presume it’s an insert multi fuel type stove of around 7kw that you were quoted for. That price seems outlandish. It’s a days work to fit one. I would definitely shop around for further quotes.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what it is, indeed it is one day's work as they said they would come in morning and I'd have stove lighting by evening.

I will be looking for another couple of quotes just out of curiosity, a friend had similar but a bigger job due to fireplace done last year and it was €2,100. Another place won't even give a quote unless I pay €150 first for camera down the chimney to check it so won't be going back to them!
 
RedOnion said:
Do those quotes include chimney lining?
Click to expand...
Yes

Should clarify, both those quotes are same company, just slightly different units.

There are only 3 places locally for me to try that do an all in job, other than that I can buy stoves several places but then have to find someone to fit it! That said it's what a friend of mine did but he's handy enough himself in the first place and had contacts capable of fitting it correctly.
 
Last edited:
Will they have to remove your fireplace or hearth. When I had mine done the hearth had to be replaced. Any extra work involved ? Any cherry picker hire needed ?
 
Hearth staying put, fire surround must be just taken off wall (screws into wall either side) to allow take out the metal backplate and fancy fireplace with tiles thingy (think reproduction victorian style) , put in new black granite backplate around stove and screw back on surround. Plate to close off bottom of chimney and flue, nothing extra to that, bungalow, chimney easily accessible with a ladder, painted regularly with no difficulty as it's right on apex of roof so you can straddle across each side for a bit of extra stability.

Forgot, drill a vent through wall as well plus a 'free' carbon monoxide detector for the room :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top