Replacing Solid Fuel Open Fire

1kw = 3,412 BTU
This the law of physics and cannot be change .
Therefore in terms of heat it is 100% efficient
 
Agree re radon. Most are not informed about it all. I had mine checked 15 years ago. It wasn’t zero but not in worrying zone. The western diet and atmospheric pollution we consume is far more likely to cause us problems than opening a stove door twice an evening in the Winter in my view.
 
roker said:
1kw = 3,412 BTU
This the law of physics and cannot be change .
Therefore in terms of heat it is 100% efficient
Click to expand...
Btu is a tiny unit of heat just because a 1kW is equivalent to a relatively large number of btu means nothing , its just comparing 1 large unit 1kW to a small unit Btu.
To put btu into context a small wood stove ranges from 30000 to 60,000 btu or 10kW to 20kW of heat.
We all can imagine the hear from a small wood stove as it is very familiar but that stove would use 10 to 20kW of energy in an hour. Given thar electricity now costs circa 40c a unit, and a unit is a kWh of electricity ,that's 4 to 8 euros to run the equivalent of a wood stove from electricity, bonkers.
Even heat pumps people are now finding out are very heavy on electricity and people have been shocked at the size of their electricity bills.
Laws of economics are far more relevant than the laws of physics, in this case
 
Leo said:
I see no reference to research on indoor air quality in that, did I miss something?
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You'll have to tell me. Its paywall won't let me return to that article.

It certainly debunks your claim that this is a new technology which hasn't been previously scrutinised for adverse health effects.
 
T McGibney said:
It certainly debunks your claim that this is a new technology which hasn't been previously scrutinised for adverse health effects.
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As does the long list of research papers here.

Some examples:

Alfheim I, Ramdahl T, Contribution of wood combustion to indoor air pollution as measured by mutagenicity in Salmonella and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon concentration, Environ. Mutagen 1984;6(2):121-130

Abstract: Samples of airborne particles have been collected in the same room when the room was heated by electricity and when heating was done by woodburning. These samples were compared with respect to mutagenic activity and concentration of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH). The effects of the various heating conditions were examined in the presence and absence of tobacco smoking. Whereas wood heating in an "airtight" stove was found to cause only minor changes in the concentration of PAH and no measurable increase of mutagenic activity of the indoor air, both these parameters increased considerably when wood was burned in an open fireplace, yielding PAH concentrations comparable to those of ambient urban air. Relatively high concentrations of moderately polar polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon derivatives were also found in the indoor air when wood was burned in an open fireplace. Woodburning in the closed stove did, however, result in increased concentrations of mutagenic compounds and PAH on particles sampled in the vicinity of the house. The effects of wood burning in an open fireplace on the mutagenic activity of indoor air could still be considered moderate when compared to those resulting from tobacco smoking in the room. The extracts of particles collected when moderate smoking occurred were several times more mutagenic than samples from urban air collected close to streets with heavy traffic when measured in the Salmonella assay with strain TA98 with metabolic activation. >$/p>

Butterfield, P, LaCava, G. Edumunston E, Penner, J. 1989. Woodstoves and indoor air: the effects on preschooler’s upper respiratory symptoms. J. Environ. Health 52:172-73. (L&K, Ref 14)

Boone PM, Rossman TG, Daisey JM. The genotoxic contribution of wood smoke to indoor respirable suspended particles. Environment International 1989 15:361-368.

Browning KG, Koenig JQ, Checkoway H, Larson, TV, Peirson WE., A questionnaire study of respiratory health in areas of high and low ambient wood smoke pollution, Pediatr. Asthma All. Immunol. 4:183-91, 1990

Collings DA, Sithole SD, Martin KS, Indoor woodsmoke pollution causing lower respiratory disease in children, Trop Doct, 1990 Oct;20(4):151-155

Abstract: Suggested aetiological factors were evaluated in 244 consecutive children presenting with lower respiratory disease at Marondera Hospital, Zimbabwe. Data obtained from these children were compared with information obtained from 500 children seen at the local well baby clinic. There were no differences in the prevalence of malnutrition, breast feeding, overcrowding, poor housing conditions and poverty in these two groups of children. A significant association was identified between lower respiratory disease and exposure to atmospheric woodsmoke pollution in young children. Air sampling within the kitchens of 40 children revealed levels of atmospheric pollution far in excess of the WHO recommended exposure limit. Elevated carboxyhaemoglobin concentrations confirmed childhood smoke inhalation. We suggest that in many Third World communities a chemical pneumonitis resulting from the inhalation of noxious constituents of woodsmoke predisposes to lower respiratory disease in children.
 
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Life assurance companies heavily penalize smokers who take out life assurance with higher premiums.

Why don't they do same for those who use stoves as a source of heat and are looking for life cover?
 
I instructed ChatGPT to write an article on "Are wood burning stoves dangerous to your health". This is what it wrote:

Wood burning stoves are a popular and economical way to heat a home, but if not properly maintained and used, they can pose a serious threat to your health. Wood burning stoves release particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, and other pollutants into the air, which can be hazardous to your health. Particulate matter is a mix of solid and liquid droplets that are small enough to enter the lungs. Long-term exposure to particulate matter can cause a variety of respiratory problems, including asthma, bronchitis, and lung cancer. Carbon monoxide is an odorless, colorless gas that can cause dizziness, headaches, and even death if inhaled in large enough quantities. Nitrogen dioxide is a toxic gas that can cause inflammation of the lungs and worsen existing respiratory conditions. To reduce the health risks of wood burning stoves, it's important to properly maintain the stove and venting system. Make sure the stove is installed according to manufacturer instructions and the venting system is regularly inspected for any damage or blockages. The chimney should be cleaned at least once a year by a certified chimney sweep. When using the wood burning stove, never use a fuel that produces more smoke than heat,

Jim Stafford
 
T McGibney said:
You'll have to tell me. Its paywall won't let me return to that article.

It certainly debunks your claim that this is a new technology which hasn't been previously scrutinised for adverse health effects.
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Haha!!! To be clear then the article you reference in a conversation on indoor air quality makes no reference whatsoever to indoor air quality or any study. They do however talk of the benefits of sealed pellet stoves (the ones where you never have to open them to add fuel), but they only talk in terms of overall pollutant output being lower.

Can you tell me where I said wood burners were new technology? I fear this is another case of you making assumptions.
 
T McGibney said:
As does the long list of research papers here.
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Yep, all recent in policy terms. The UK government was funding asbestos research in the 1930s, almost 70 years later it was banned. Studies on the effects of second-hand cigarette smoke were taking place in the 60's, it took us until 2004 to introduce the smoking ban.
 

Come on. You claimed:

I listed numerous relevant studies dating from 1984 to 1990. You're now suggesting these are "all recent".
39 years ago is neither recent nor in "the past few years"
 
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From memory, most wood burning stoves may have a maximum heat output of 5kW to 9kW , dependent on the volume of the fire material and calorific value used. Can you please refrain from using obsolete imperial units.
 
Is the general assertion here that the internal pollution of a closed stove is equivalent to a traditional open fire ?.
Sorry, that doesnt standup to common sense.
if a person is switching from a 20% open chimney, to 80% efficient closed stove heater , to produce same amount of heat , which needs very occasionally refulling, the amount of pollution experienced by the dwelling inhabitants is clearly reduced.
 
fidelcastro said:
From memory, most wood burning stoves may have a maximum heat output of 5kW to 9kW , dependent on the volume of the fire material and calorific value used. Can you please refrain from using obsolete imperial units.
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I didn't introduce BTU units , the poster I was responding to did, I didn't actually understand what he was trying to say actually it was a bit nonsensical.
In any case the point I was making still stands replacing a wood stove with electricity will be highly expensive even at 5kW to 9KW output that will cost between 2 and 5 euros an hour to run at todays unit cost of 0.4euros per KWh
 
T McGibney said:
I listed numerous relevant studies dating from 1984 to 1990. You're now suggesting these are "all recent".
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You listed lots of studies, but I presume you didn't read any of them. I can't decide whether the one on respiratory issues in forest firefighters or the one on women's health in rural Africa from cooking on open fires was the most relevant. Perhaps you could point me to the ones that actually deal with particles emissions from room sealed stoves that are common now?
 
No you can educate yourself on your own dollar.

Your claim that "It's only in the last few years as energy price rises has led to increased adoption of wood burning stoves that research has started looking at this area" has been totally debunked.
 
T McGibney said:
Your claim that "It's only in the last few years as energy price rises has led to increased adoption of wood burning stoves that research has started looking at this area" has been totally debunked.
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But only in your head where you also seem to believe that research dealing with respiratory issues experienced by forest firefighters is somehow applicable to particles emissions from modern stoves.
 
Leo said:
But only in your head where you also seem to believe that research dealing with respiratory issues experienced by forest firefighters is somehow applicable to particles emissions from modern stoves.
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That's a clear and deliberate misrepresentation of the link I provided and partly copied in #66. That link lists dozens of studies from the 80s and 90s on the health effects of wood-burning stoves, each relevant to your claim that this wasn't studied until a few years ago, along with a number of other less relevant ones, including one as you note, on forest firefighters exposed to high concentrations of smoke in their work.

Let's instead stick to the topic, and drop the "only in your head" ad hominem. Please.
 
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