Public Service Attitudes.

This is simple - people need to be paid their worth at fair market value and right now there are plenty of people that would do civil service jobs for a whole lot less. Given that most of the pen pushers in the civil service (excluding qualified teaches, nurses, accountants etc.) only qualification for the role was a nod and a wink from Fianna Fail TD's (Thats how it was when I emigrated in 85) we should replace them all. If an Indian call centre replaces my job why the hell can we not replace civil servants with the same?

Lets overthow the government, say, Saturday morning next week?
 
That's a bit much; public sector recruitment procedures are very fair.
 
Right. When you have a serious proposal, feel free to post it up here.

quarterfloun said:
Lets overthow the government, say, Saturday morning next week?
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Damn it, I'm tied up at a meeting with the Parents rep on the school Board of Management on Saturday morning. I've brought some concerns about school issues to his attention, and he is keen to follow up.

Could you make it Sat PM instead?
 

Having been involved in a school board I find it very unlikely that a member would meet with you like that.
 
The RTE News tonight mentioned about a family member visiting at Our Lady's Hospice in Harolds Cross coming down to the picket line to offer them his support.
 
Complainer said:
The RTE News tonight mentioned about a family member visiting at Our Lady's Hospice in Harolds Cross coming down to the picket line to offer them his support.
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That's just the sort of biased BS I’d expect from the Public Sector Broadcaster. None of my family members were offering them support.
 

Today, the vast majority of teaching staff have demonstrated that they will put their own interests ahead of their students. Teachers argue that they cannot and will not take more pain. What a joke - they are now paying a modest contribution towards their Rolls Royce pensions - but react as if they have had a leg amputated.
I have a question for these poor,downtrodden caring professionals - did the thought ever occur to you, that you should continue to teach 6th year students without interruption. These students will not get an opportunity to make-up for classes lost due to the strike(s) - with the obvious negative impact this will have on their leaving cert prospects.
Teachers had/have a choice - they have chosen to hurt students at a critical time in their education, to advance their own interests - they have earned our contempt...
 

Don, what does the above bit in bold mean? Do you know what you're talking about?
 
'The RTE News tonight mentioned about a family member visiting at Our Lady's Hospice in Harolds Cross coming down to the picket line to offer them his support'.

That was a quote from some SIPTU offical at the hospice. Of course he's going to say that. To see him and his members grinnning for the cameras was disgusting. What kind of people would picket people dying of cancer. What kind of person would leave their dying relative to join a bunch of SIPTU picketers who are depriving that relative of care? I don't think so, thats just a spin put out by the union because they are or should be ashamed of themselves. The same as those who picketed special schools for the disabled or those with learning difficulties or those who picketed facilities for old people. What kind of people are these?
 
Lex Foutish said:
Don, what does the above bit in bold mean? Do you know what you're talking about?
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Yes actually - based on what I have read, and importantly, on real examples - for instance - a colleague who told me that his retired parents (teachers) were being paid significantly more now than when they both retired 10 years ago. It is a fact that the vast majority of defined pension schemes are in (serious) deficit - and that it will take over a decade for them to recover - and that most have/will close to new members.
PS pensions are paid from current spending - crazy.
I sat with a colleague today who is being made compulsory redundant - 3 kids, big mortage, partner recently laid off. This is the real world. In an ideal world, nobody would have to take pain - however, it is immoral and indefensible to militate for special treatment for those in the most protected sector. And, was/is it beyond the capacity of teachers to ensure that their Leaving Cert students reamain unaffected.....
 

Very sorry for your friend. A few of my friends in the same boat. And it's a horrible situation to be in.

But you missed my point completely. Before the recent Pension Levy was introduced, teachers were already paying 6.5% of their salaries in pension contributions.
 
No teacher (and no public servant) wants to be out on strike, losing a days pay, worrying about losing another days pay next month or more again in the future. No-one wants to be on strike. The existing cut of the pension levy (which goes directly into current expenditure and has absolutely nothing to do with their pension) has caused significant pain. Today's protest was not about that cut, but about the proposed next round of cuts which aim to further target the soft option of public servant salaries.
DonDub said:
they have earned our contempt.
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Speak for yourself. The parent interviewed on the news who joined the teachers on the picket line didn't seem to think so.

johnd said:
That was a quote from some SIPTU offical at the hospice. Of course he's going to say that. To see him and his members grinnning for the cameras was disgusting.
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Ah I see. Anything that doesn't suit your personal agenda is dismissed as a lie. I've just replayed the clip ([broken link removed]) and I don't see any grinning from Tommy Morris (IMPACT, not SIPTU) or any of the staff picketing the Hospice, but feel free to make up other wild allegations. Some of them might just stick.

johnd said:
What kind of person would leave their dying relative to join a bunch of SIPTU picketers who are depriving that relative of care?
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Probably the kind of person who sees the value of public services. Maybe the kind of person who has seen staff working their asses off in very difficult circumstances to provide excellent care to patients and their families.

johnd said:
The same as those who picketed special schools for the disabled or those with learning difficulties or those who picketed facilities for old people. What kind of people are these?
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These are public servants, picketing their workplaces - no more, no less - while their colleagues are still at work inside continuing to provide essential services.
 
Lex Foutish said:
But you missed my point completely. Before the recent Pension Levy was introduced, teachers were already paying 6.5% of their salaries in pension contributions.
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6.5% of salary contribution for a 50% of salary pension was, I think, too generous a deal. For a person in the private sector to get anything like that would require a lot more than 14% (6.5% + 7.5% pension levy).

I think public sector workers should be allowed to opt out of the pension if they wish. Like people in the private sector they should make their own arrangements if they want to top up the state pension. End of problem.
 
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Great suggestion - I wonder would we get 250,000 to take up such an opt out....the number on strike today. The state would save a fortune.
 

Interesting you should mention Our Ladies Hospice is that one of the hospices that is always looking for donations because this govt has cut its funding.
 

I'm not arguing that PS aren't suffering pain - however, it is an absolute scandal that one group in society is immune to the full impact of the economic crisis....its a simple matter of fairness. All citizens are entitled to equality of treatment i.e. if the risk of forced redundancyis a feature of life for of the majority, it should apply equally to the minority. Likewise with pensions - if the majority are expected to fund their pensions..so to should the minority. And on pay, when most have taken a hit on earnings (through job loss, part-time working, bonus elimination, freezes, cuts etc) it is perfectly reasonable to insist that the minority should be open to the same scale of risk/pain. There is no 'right' to a given standard of living.....everything must be earned. Ireland is broke...we can't afford to carry the PS as presently structured and paid. This is not hysterical anti PS ranting...its simple fact....such as that faced by legions of private sector workers who have lost their jobs - no sales..no profits..no jobs...PS workers and their unions need to cop on, grow up and get real!!
 
DonDub said:
its a simple matter of fairness.
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My understanding is that a good majority of the private sector has not had job cuts or pay decreases of any kind in fact the national pay agreement has been implemented by most of the companies who signed up for it.

BUT the minority, the entire Public and civil service has taken a hit.
 
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