Public Service Attitudes.

[Protocol]

Where did you get this salary scale from? I have never seen such a short salary scale in my life.

Secondly nobody would reach the top of that salary scale for at least 10-15 years or somebody with 10-15 years of experience.

Do not forget that the likely candidate to get this job would probably have a masters degree and a doctorate. These are high calibre individuals.

They also conduct a lot of research as well as lecturing.

Where did it say that the person gets 40 days leave per annum??

This is a 3rd level teaching salary scale.

It starts at approx 52k, next point 62k (I don't know why the increment is so big), then several more points, to finish at 85-87k approx.

There are maybe 7-10 points altogether, ok probably 10 points.

Very few of the staff have doctorates, I'd say less than 20%. Until recently, several did not have MAs.

There is 14 weeks leave, or 70 days.

Of course, research is encouraged, and some are active, but this has only really happeneing recently.

My point is: with such good pay, conditions and pensions, why go on strike?

 

[smiley]

In Waterford institute of technology an assistant lecturer post salary scales are as below:

Salary scale (as at 01/05/2008): €41,097, €42,789, €44,519, €45,886, €47,270, €48,652, €50,035, €51,404

Minimum Qualifications for the Post

appropriate Honours primary degree (second class or higher) or equivalent
3 years relevant post graduate experience


Back to the strike, personally i work for a semi state body and we are NOT on strike on Tuesday. I am in a state agency branch of SIPTU.

Personally i don't agree with the strike but i can understand the reason behind it. If people don't make any noise the government could make bigger salary cuts.

With price reductions/deflation taking place there is scope for some more cuts.

 

[quarterfloun]

You've all gone round the point.

After the rain and all the hype there were NO local floods of significant relevance. It was just an excuse for the public employees to skive off. NO other business shut. For examples creches and playgroups sun was tayed open so the argument earlier about abandonment is only relevant to public sector employees.

On Friday - the sun was splitting the stones and I managed to drive to Dublin, Naas and Carlow before returning to Wexford. Yet my childrens school was shut.

Regarding the point made about hiring people to work in the public sector back in 2003 - 2004 - thats rubbish. I know plenty of people that would love to have taken a job if offered. After all what was FAS doing if employment was so rife....maybe in Dublin but we all don't live there.

Finally I was not being flippant suggesting a revolution.....we need something that gets rid of the useless bantering that goes on in the Dail, gets rid of cash bungs to their buddies in the banks, get rid of kow towing to unions - if the job goes in the private sector it goes. Should be the same in public sector.

In my book a militant takeover is welcome if it puts this country back on its feet. As for the defence forces - if we had a revolution you never know...they might do a bit more than minding the banks money (or is that our money now?).

 

[Complainer]

Maybe as an intermediate step before you put everyone up against the wall for shooting (or firing), have you considered talking to the school to understand their actions, and/or attempt to change their policy for the future?

or perhaps being a keyboard warrior is a bit easier?

 

[quarterfloun]

"Health & Safety" was the given reason....as for being a "Keyboard Warrior" I am attempting to change policy - by making as many people as I can aware of the gross abuse of their taxes. Oh, and my kids are home again today ....the lazy gits are not even picketing the school. Just another day off to go with the other holidays they get like "in service". Probably gone to Newry for a days shopping......

 

[johnd]

ASTI members only had to picket for an hour and a half and then off to shop. I knew I would be right about the nurses union - they are picketing the hospices again as in 1999. Just on the news now. So dying patients are being targeted again. Shame on them

 

[Purple]

I knew I would be right about the nurses union - they are picketing the hospices again as in 1999. Just on the news now. So dying patients are being targeted again. Shame on them

I have a close family member in one. It is very upsetting for the family but obviously the nurses don't care.

 

[Latrade]

Pickets and strikes are two separate things. The strike, which is what unions voted on is the withdrawl of labour.

The pickets are different and are an effort to "communicate" the issue and "persuade" (ahem) colleagues to not break the strike. Therefore, the target of the pickets has been when staff could be entering the workplace.

Not saying I agree or that there is any merit in what is happening, but it is important to distinguish the two.

 

[Protocol]

ASTI members only had to picket for an hour and a half and then off to shop.

My cousin's wife, a teacher in Co. Galway, is on the picket line for 20 mins.

 

[johnd]

The union, which I only joined a month ago and will now be leaving had the vote for industrial action in March 2009. According to a memo we received yesterday 'they did consider a more up to date vote but as the situation is changed decide not to bother'. In real speak this means they guessed members might vote against the strike so decided not to ask members just in case.

A recruitment drive took place in the last few weeks and those who joined at that time are now wondering if the reason was to boost the union membership and so make the strike more successful?

 

[VOR]

A recruitment drive took place in the last few weeks...

Well today it's a drive of different sorts. Tail backs entering Newry. PR disaster for the unions. Couldn't even put in a decent shift in the country never mind on the picket line.

 

[johnd]

Now, apparently, we are going on strike in two weeks time and in December for 3 days! Well they will be going on strike without me and my 4 workmates and we will keep the office open to the public. We've had enough of them.

 

[VOR]

Now, apparently, we are going on strike in two weeks time and in December for 3 days! Well they will be going on strike without me and my 4 workmates and we will keep the office open to the public. We've had enough of them.

Well said. I wonder how deep the union pockets are. We will soon find out.

 

[johnd]

The union, which I only joined a month ago and will now be leaving had the vote for industrial action in March 2009. According to a memo we received yesterday 'they did consider a more up to date vote but as the situation is changed decide not to bother'. In real speak this means they guessed members might vote against the strike so decided not to ask members just in case.

A recruitment drive took place in the last few weeks and those who joined at that time are now wondering if the reason was to boost the union membership and so make the strike more successful?[/quote]


Sorry, that should have read 'as the situation is unchanged decided not to bother'

 

[Caveat]

Well said. I wonder how deep the union pockets are. We will soon find out.

I honestly don't see what they think they are going to achieve.

Public opinion is not generally in their favour as far as I can see and can only deteriorate. Escalating action will see to that - it will also save the government some of the money they hope to recoup. Evidence that existing union members are becoming disgruntled - both on this site and with people I speak to.

Strike away my friends if that's what you want - turn the public completely against you all, save some money and bankrupt the unions.

Cuts will still be made anyway.

 

[Complainer]

The union, which I only joined a month ago and will now be leaving had the vote for industrial action in March 2009. According to a memo we received yesterday 'they did consider a more up to date vote but as the situation is changed decide not to bother'. In real speak this means they guessed members might vote against the strike so decided not to ask members just in case.

Which union? Did you not check about their plans and intentions before you signed up?

A recruitment drive took place in the last few weeks and those who joined at that time are now wondering if the reason was to boost the union membership and so make the strike more successful?

Do you have a problem with unions recruiting new members?

Well today it's a drive of different sorts. Tail backs entering Newry. PR disaster for the unions.

Can you tell union cars from a distance? Is there a possibility that maybe some of these cars are families that took time off work to mind their kids?

I knew I would be right about the nurses union - they are picketing the hospices again as in 1999. Just on the news now. So dying patients are being targeted again. Shame on them

Are they dying patients running in and out of the gates? Are the services for the patients inside affected?

"Health & Safety" was the given reason....as for being a "Keyboard Warrior" I am attempting to change policy - by making as many people as I can aware of the gross abuse of their taxes.

Yeah, you mentioned H&S the last time, and it seems like a fairly crap reason, which is why I suggested talking to people to change things for the next time. If you do want to change policy, try talking to the people who set the policy (the principal and the board of management), rather than talking to the world on the 'net.

 

[Purple]

Are they dying patients running in and out of the gates? Are the services for the patients inside affected?

I'm sure you are aware that few if any dying people are in a position to run anywhere but the services offered to the families of the dying, who are spending as much time as possible with their loved ones in their last days and hours, are most definitely affected.
I'm sure you think that's a small price to pay and they should really be sucking it up to show solidarity with those seeking to make their final moments less comfortable.

 

[Complainer]

This letter from today's Irish Times gives another side of life as a college lecturer;

Madam, – I am a college lecturer and a public servant. I am 34 years old and I have been teaching for five years. I work full-time hours and am not on a permanent contract. I earn €34,000 per annum, which includes a supplement for a first-class postgraduate degree. I am not secure, but I love my job. I have a nine-month-old son and a self-employed wife, whose business has all but disappeared.
I see Government Ministers’ ludicrous salaries and their sickening expense claims. I see them pretend to take control of our affairs and then be bullied and dictated to by corrupt banks. I see them U-turn, flip-flop and cynically test the waters of public opinion. I see them manipulate facts, talk about “averages” in public service pay and drive a wedge between the workers. I see them pay off crooks and conmen.
I am not striking for more money or for better conditions. I am striking for a cap of about €100,000 on public service salaries, including those of Government Ministers. I am striking for more equitable taxation. I am striking for those who can’t strike and for those who won’t. I am striking for the moral high ground that our Government can see but has chosen not to take. – Yours, etc,
ALAN COSTELLO,
Broadstone, Dublin 7.

 

[Purple]

What are "full time hours" for poor Alan?
He's been teaching for 5 years, were they all as a lecturer in the same place?

 

[truthseeker]

This letter from today's Irish Times gives another side of life as a college lecturer;

Madam, – I am a college lecturer and a public servant. I am 34 years old and I have been teaching for five years. I work full-time hours and am not on a permanent contract. I earn €34,000 per annum, which includes a supplement for a first-class postgraduate degree. I am not secure, but I love my job. I have a nine-month-old son and a self-employed wife, whose business has all but disappeared.
I see Government Ministers’ ludicrous salaries and their sickening expense claims. I see them pretend to take control of our affairs and then be bullied and dictated to by corrupt banks. I see them U-turn, flip-flop and cynically test the waters of public opinion. I see them manipulate facts, talk about “averages” in public service pay and drive a wedge between the workers. I see them pay off crooks and conmen.
I am not striking for more money or for better conditions. I am striking for a cap of about €100,000 on public service salaries, including those of Government Ministers. I am striking for more equitable taxation. I am striking for those who can’t strike and for those who won’t. I am striking for the moral high ground that our Government can see but has chosen not to take. – Yours, etc,
ALAN COSTELLO,
Broadstone, Dublin 7.

Whats your point here?
IMO I dont think this letter is representative, the salary stated is too low for a start, he makes no mention of his 4 months off every summer and full-time hours for a lecturer do not equate to full time hours for a private company employee.