Public Service Allowance Scandal

[Purple]

Not the first Government minister to go shooting his mouth off before actually doing anything. I think these guys were in opposition for too long where it was easy to sprout populist rubbish every time a camera was pointed at you. A few of them are finding out the realities of being in power.

This Government are proving to be as spinless as everything that came before them. Why don't we just be done with it and allow the ICTU to run the Country.

It's not called ICTU any more, they are now just referred to as CONGRESS. That's what the public sector broadcaster calls them anyway.

 

[Delboy]

....This Government are proving to be as spinless as everything that came before them. Why don't we just be done with it and allow the ICTU to run the Country.

I thought they were already running part of the country and the Troika are now running the other part which was previously run by the Developers/Banks!!!

 

[becky]

Not as far as I am aware which is why they should have been hit very hard, if core Pay is off the table due to CPA, then this was only angle Govt had to address pay related costs and they bottled it.

I understand that if you pay superan on the allowance you get the benefit. I'm not too sure of the exact rules though.

I was surprised at this climb down but there must have been a reason which will come out in the wash at some stage.

We were informed from corporate HR 'informally mind' that the living out allowance to junior doctors was going for all.

In the HSE no new entrant or re starter receive any allowance unless they had it on 01/02/2012 and there is no break in service. Howlin seem to be making it out that this is only the case now.

 

[Protocol]

Are allowance payments part of the wage calculation for pensions in the public sector?

I know only about teachers.

Basic pay
+ degree allowance
+ H.Dip. / postgrad allowance
+ post of responsibility (some teachers)

YES, all part of core pay, and all pensionable.

 

[Sunny]

I know only about teachers.

Basic pay
+ degree allowance
+ H.Dip. / postgrad allowance
+ post of responsibility (some teachers)

YES, all part of core pay, and all pensionable.

Why is a degree allowance part of core pay? Don't teachers who qualify automatically have a degree?

 

[Protocol]

Historical reasons, I suspect?

Maybe they didn't always have a degree. I think a lot time ago primary teachers didn't.

 

[Protocol]

Also, the degree allowance depends on the award.

Pass = 1,842
Honours = 4,918

 

[cork]

Why is is so easy to cut services so that allowances are maintained?

No effort is being made either to cut waste, cut duplication or protect services.

FG promised the voters that they'll cut quangos.

All talk but zero action.

Government seem to have no problem cutting vital services like home help.

 

[Purple]

Why is is so easy to cut services so that allowances are maintained?

Because the Unions call the shots and unions are vested interest groups with the sole agenda of protecting their members pay and conditions. They have no social function or broad national agenda. Since the sick and the vulnerable don't pay their dues they are fair game in the battle to protect the haves from the have-not's.

 

[Purple]

Why is a degree allowance part of core pay? Don't teachers who qualify automatically have a degree?

I agree that a degree allowance is nonsense but as teachers don't have a structure to be promoted through extra allowances have been used over the years as an alternative.

 

[Sunny]

Because the Unions call the shots and unions are vested interest groups with the sole agenda of protecting their members pay and conditions. They have no social function or broad national agenda. Since the sick and the vulnerable don't pay their dues they are fair game in the battle to protect the haves from the have-not's.

And young people! Why would any new entrant join a trade union considering they have been sold down the river to protect existing employees. Got to love 'social solidarity'.

I think the existing trade union movement have caused themselves huge harm in the long term. There will be a raft of new militant unions starting up because of this.

 

[Purple]

And young people! Why would any new entrant join a trade union considering they have been sold down the river to protect existing employees. Got to love 'social solidarity'.

I think the existing trade union movement have caused themselves huge harm in the long term. There will be a raft of new militant unions starting up because of this.

Yea, they were sold down the river by the fat-cats in ICTU/SIPTU, gutted to protect those already paying their dues.

 

[Knuttell]

Labour will pay dearly for this at the next election and its not true to say that they can rely on the P/S C/S vote,a lot of these workers are as disgusted by Howlins incompetence/unwillingness to tackle this as anyone in the private sector.

My Wife is a Civil Servant and is as annoyed by this as I am...any intelligent person would find this guys attitude remarkable,he really needs to be removed from his job immediately.

 

[Calico]

I am appalled and disgusted at the protection given to the Public Service via the Croke Park Agreement, and now this allowances fiasco. The early retirement scheme is another absolute disgrace, as is paying new entrants less than colleagues who do the same jobs. The increments system is also ludicrous.

I never thought I'd say this, but Ireland is seriously lacking a PD-style party right now to give some sort of voice to ordinary people's feelings on all this.

 

[mandelbrot]

The increments system is also ludicrous.

You do realise that in most, if not all, countries incremental salary scales operate for public servants? If you want to make Ireland a guinea pig and do away with incremental salary scales, I'd be interested to hear what you propose instead? It's very easy to make a flippant remark like the one above, but ca you back it up with a less ludicrous alternative??

Bearing in mind opportunities for promotion or advancement are fairly limited, do you think people should start at day 1 on "the salary" for their grade, and then continue to work for that same salary for 40 years until they retire? Hint: do you envisage any problems with staff morale / motivation to work hard with no potential financial reward or recognition?

I keep saying it over and over and over and over again - the problem isn't with incremental scales; they exist all over the world in large organisations, public and private - the problem is adequate performance management, to ensure that only people who have performed get their increment. Carrot AND stick....

 

[amtc]

I know a a guy in a public sector organisation (Comm SS) who receives a Eating On Route allowance - he's a sales rep based in Dublin City Centre....it's there to boost his salary.

I also know that all quangos still get personal newspapers.....

 

[Sunny]

I know a a guy in a public sector organisation (Comm SS) who receives a Eating On Route allowance - he's a sales rep based in Dublin City Centre....it's there to boost his salary.

I also know that all quangos still get personal newspapers.....

Lots of people in the private sector get those allowances.

 

[Purple]

the problem isn't with incremental scales; they exist all over the world in large organisations, public and private - the problem is adequate performance management, to ensure that only people who have performed get their increment. Carrot AND stick....

Agree 100%.

Lots of people in the private sector get those allowances.

I think it would be highly unusual for a business that’s in receivership to hand out free newspapers. The Irish government is in receivership.

 

[dereko1969]

I know a a guy in a public sector organisation (Comm SS) who receives a Eating On Route allowance - he's a sales rep based in Dublin City Centre....it's there to boost his salary.

I also know that all quangos still get personal newspapers.....[/QUOTE]

Some quangos will have a press officer, should they not be reading the newspapers?

If you're implying that everyone in every quango gets a free newspaper then you're wrong.

 

[One]

Howlin is the only one being bashed on this thread.

If I was working in the public sector, I would be offended by some of the stuff on this thread. I work in a private sector company that is unpopular with the public. The company gets inaccurately blamed for wrongdoing, and the people who work there like me get insulted and threatened outside of working hours. I am sure bank staff get insulted for what the management of the banks have done. What happens at the top reflects on everyone else who works there. You say it is just Brendan Howlin who is getting bashed. Brendan Howlin doesn't have the time to examine the merit of, the justification for, and the use and abuse of every allowance in the country. Is it not everyone else in his department who is getting bashed by this thread as well?

I also think if some people who work in the public sector are believed to be getting daft allowances, it is going to reflect badly on them.