Public sector V Public sector

[colin79ie]

Also a significant number of employees in the CS/PS work 24/7 e.g. Guards, Nurses, Doctors, Firemen, Ambulance drivers, Coast Guard and i for one don't expect them to work nights, weekends, bank holidays without being compensated for it

This is one new group of protesters that gets on my nerves.

How many of these employees work 24/7? They work continental shifts of 4 days on/off, 12 hours on/off. I used to be one of these 'frontline alliance' workers as well but I left to pursue other career options in the private sector. I worked a 40 hour week same as everyone else, and could work all the overtime I wanted. But it was MY choice to do so, and it was MY choice to do that particular job in the first place. One chooses one's own preofession so why don't they just get on with the job THEY have chosen and they are paid for like everyone else.

There are dangerous aspects to every job. Binmen, truck drivers, taxi drivers, bank officials, fishermen, farmers etc etc etc.

 

[Purple]

This is one new group of protesters that gets on my nerves.

How many of these employees work 24/7? They work continental shifts of 4 days on/off, 12 hours on/off. I used to be one of these 'frontline alliance' workers as well but I left to pursue other career options in the private sector. I worked a 40 hour week same as everyone else, and could work all the overtime I wanted. But it was MY choice to do so, and it was MY choice to do that particular job in the first place. One chooses one's own preofession so why don't they just get on with the job THEY have chosen and they are paid for like everyone else.

There are dangerous aspects to every job. Binmen, truck drivers, taxi drivers, bank officials, fishermen, farmers etc etc etc.

Well said.

 

[liaconn]

On the radio a few days ago a woman rang into a show arguing the case that child benefits shouldn't be cut. She then let slip that her husband was on 100K plus per year!!??

On The Week in Politics last night, people were being interviewed re their views on reducing child benefit. Some people were telling very genuine stories about having to rear young children on their own or their partner having lost his job and so on and you could quite clearly see how a reduction in child benefit would impact very negatively on them. However, one mother said 'how can I give my children all that they want' if they reduce child benefit. Surely someone like that could afford a reduction.

 

[S.L.F]

However, one mother said 'how can I give my children all that they want' if they reduce child benefit. Surely someone like that could afford a reduction.

Maybe she meant "need" instead of "want"?

 

[Latrade]

This is where I get confused. My understanding is they are proposing to have the child benefit as means tested. There may well be some other general cut too, but I think they're just doing the figures on saving from means testing first.

So what's wrong with that?

My confusion is that the very same people who claim those on (joint) 100K can afford to pay considerably more tax each and every month, yet they can't afford to lose this benefit? Where's the logic or consistency in that?

 

[Purple]

this is where i get confused. My understanding is they are proposing to have the child benefit as means tested. There may well be some other general cut too, but i think they're just doing the figures on saving from means testing first.

so what's wrong with that?

my confusion is that the very same people who claim those on (joint) 100k can afford to pay considerably more tax each and every month, yet they can't afford to lose this benefit? Where's the logic or consistency in that?

+1

 

[S.L.F]

This is where I get confused. My understanding is they are proposing to have the child benefit as means tested. There may well be some other general cut too, but I think they're just doing the figures on saving from means testing first.

So what's wrong with that?

My confusion is that the very same people who claim those on (joint) 100K can afford to pay considerably more tax each and every month, yet they can't afford to lose this benefit? Where's the logic or consistency in that?

By the same token, surely because they pay so much in tax that they should get something back?

Maybe means testing is the way to go.

 

[liaconn]

Maybe she meant "need" instead of "want"?

True.

 

[Latrade]

By the same token, surely because they pay so much in tax that they should get something back?

Maybe means testing is the way to go.

That's not the point of the taxation system being proposed though. It's to tax the "well off" to pay for the "most vulnerable" and continue to current levels of social welfare. Surely means testing without tax increases can achieve the same result?

 

[bogle]

This is one new group of protesters that gets on my nerves.

How many of these employees work 24/7? They work continental shifts of 4 days on/off, 12 hours on/off. I used to be one of these 'frontline alliance' workers as well but I left to pursue other career options in the private sector. I worked a 40 hour week same as everyone else, and could work all the overtime I wanted. But it was MY choice to do so, and it was MY choice to do that particular job in the first place. One chooses one's own preofession so why don't they just get on with the job THEY have chosen and they are paid for like everyone else.

There are dangerous aspects to every job. Binmen, truck drivers, taxi drivers, bank officials, fishermen, farmers etc etc etc.

What's you're substantive point here apart from having your nerves agitated?
Mine is that if an employee (private or public) is expected to work nights, weekends, bank holidays they should be compensated accordingly. It is standard practice in industry to pay shift premium - example Intel pay a shift premium in excess of 30%. There very well may be a case for rationalizing all the allowances - I don't know as I'm not a front line alliance employee.

Final point - I assume you took a pay cut then when you left the CS/PS?
I know I took one when I left a professional job in a consultancy firm to join the CS!

 

[colin79ie]

Didn't take a pay cut.

What does it matter whether you are working in the dark or during daylight? You work your 40 hour week regardless. What you do in that 40 hours is your chosen job. You get paid for it. Simple.

The 'frontline' workers get compensated for bnk holidays etc the same as most other people.

 

[z101]

I know I took one when I left a professional job in a consultancy firm to join the CS!

Then why did you switch? There must have been a reason that made you think it was the correct thing for you to do that outweighted a better salary.

I work some saturdays and sundays as it's work. I dont get any extra for it as the market wouldn't pay it. Thats just the reality of it.

Restaurant and bars were having to pay Sunday double pay to staff resulting in many not doing food or opening on Sundays. I believe this is reversed or been reversed as it was not tenable to operate and make any profit. Again just the reality of it.

If someone was working a 40 hour week and was asked to work a Sunday on top perhaps there may be a case. From what I know these 'frontline' members work Sundays as part of a 5 day week.
I have a friend who is a bar manager. It's just assumed he works unsociable hours untill 3/4 am on fri/sat nights and puts in 50 to 60 hrs a week. He took a 10% paycut in the summer also. It's the reality of his career choice. Should it not be the same for frontline staff? If Intel can afford to pay it and absorb the cost then fair enough, get a job at intel.
I dont think the country can afford to pay it at the moment though.

 

[Sunny]

You can't expect people to work night shifts and not get compensated for it. I would imagine that the majority of people suggesting that you should have never worked a night shift and seen the health represcussions and impact on family life and disruption that you bring. In France, you have to have periodic health checks to pass you fit for working nightshifts.

Sunday working is different as in the modern world, Sunday is just a normal working day for a significant amount of people. All pay premiums in the public and private sector should go for this. Why should a pub pay some kid 30% extra for working on Sunday?

 

[z101]

If you do nights dont they work 4 on 4 off afterwards to compensate?

Say they did pay a premium for the grave yard shift on sats and suns, do you think it fair enough then to cut out overtime payment for the 8am to 7 pm hours on Sunday,? as like you say Sunday is just a normal working day in the modern world.

 

[S.L.F]

Restaurant and bars were having to pay Sunday double pay to staff resulting in many not doing food or opening on Sundays. I believe this is reversed or been reversed as it was not tenable to operate and make any profit.

Very poor choice on your part picking a Sunday as they tend to be (on average) the busiest day of the week so of course people have to get paid more.

Sunday is just a normal working day in the modern world.

Really!!! Is that a fact?

Most people I know are off on a Sunday and normally are.

Speaking for myself I from time to time work that day but do try to keep it free because I have commitments to family.

 

[Sunny]

If you do nights dont they work 4 on 4 off afterwards to compensate?

Say they did pay a premium for the grave yard shift on sats and suns, do you think it fair enough then to cut out overtime payment for the 8am to 7 pm hours on Sunday,? as like you say Sunday is just a normal working day in the modern world.

Fours day on and four days off is still tough going. Try doing it for a significant length of time.

I have no problem not paying a premium on Sundays. Never agreed with it in either the public or private sector. You do a 5 day day week. If one of those happens to be a Sunday, then so be it.

 

[foxylady]

The easiest thing would be to roll back the most recent bench-marking increases until the 1.3bn is obtained. That way everyone in the PS is back to where they were 2 years ago I'd say.

As a civil servant, the pension levy introduced in the last budget has already put our wages back to two years ago and as one of the lower grades , I for one cannot afford anymore paycuts

 

[S.L.F]

As a civil servant, the pension levy introduced in the last budget has already put our wages back to two years ago and as one of the lower grades , I for one cannot afford anymore paycuts

*Voice of Brian Lenihan*

Hi foxylady, in case you haven't heard the pension levy is not a pay cut, your gross is the same as it was before so you are on the same money as before.

*Voices of the PS pensioners*

Thank God for that, if they had cut the wages of the Public Sector our pensions would have had to come down too because they are linked to PS wages. Thanks Fianna Fail for looking after all the big lads on big pensions.

 

[Padraigb]

... if they had cut the wages of the Public Sector our pensions would have had to come down too because they are linked to PS wages.

I am quite sure that is why they did things as they did. The found a way to cut the pay of those still serving while leaving pensions untouched. Remember that it was done not too long after the grey power revolt on medical cards.

Thanks Fianna Fail for looking after all the big lads on big pensions.

Most public service pensioners, like myself, are not "big lads on big pensions". I'm not complaining about what have, but I wish people would not distort discussion by focusing unduly on non-representative cases.

 

[S.L.F]

I am quite sure that is why they did things as they did. The found a way to cut the pay of those still serving while leaving pensions untouched. Remember that it was done not too long after the grey power revolt on medical cards.

Since it was me who said it first I'm not going to put +1 here (except to say I won't put it there).

Most public service pensioners, like myself, are not "big lads on big pensions". I'm not complaining about what have, but I wish people would not distort discussion by focusing unduly on non-representative cases.

Just to be clear what I meant was the big boys would be the ones on more than hundred thousand euro a year.

This is the biggest problem of all about the whole thing instead of the media looking at the small people which accounts for 99% of cases they look at the big guys which needless to say is wrong.