You don't have to ASK for a final written response. The Bank must provide one once you lodge a formal complaint.
PTSB transfers to Raisin & Trade Republic "lost"
- Thread starter Cooler_box
- Start date
I will give PTSB a few days to action the complaint that I have logged online.
If that fails, like the customer service query had thus far (and the trace which PTSB seem incapable of doing) I will send a postal letter to PTSB.
EU law says that the sending bank must resolve such cases in 28 days after raised and must pay interest after 14 days. I will be chasing PTSB for interest. I have not reached 28 days yet.
PTSB and Trade Republic are both an utter disgrace with this matter. It should not be this difficult to locate money.
If that fails, like the customer service query had thus far (and the trace which PTSB seem incapable of doing) I will send a postal letter to PTSB.
EU law says that the sending bank must resolve such cases in 28 days after raised and must pay interest after 14 days. I will be chasing PTSB for interest. I have not reached 28 days yet.
PTSB and Trade Republic are both an utter disgrace with this matter. It should not be this difficult to locate money.
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Having gone through this process with a successful ombudsman case relating to Tracker mortgages with BOI, I got no such document on foot of a complaint and had to request it in order to tick the Financial ombudsman requirement.
As far as I can tell from reading online, PSD2 seems to provide a no-question refund on SEPA transfers that failed/lost by the sending bank provided you log the complaint inside 8 weeks.
Is that correct? Can anyone please help me find an exact quote on this?
I am going to contact the Central Bank of Ireland this week too and complain that PTSB are not following the PSD2 but I want to give an exact quote if I can. (I know the FSPO deal with complaints but my complaint is that legislation/correct process is not being followed by PTSB).
Is that correct? Can anyone please help me find an exact quote on this?
I am going to contact the Central Bank of Ireland this week too and complain that PTSB are not following the PSD2 but I want to give an exact quote if I can. (I know the FSPO deal with complaints but my complaint is that legislation/correct process is not being followed by PTSB).
I've never heard of it. There's an 8 week refund guaranteed in the Direct Debit scheme, but I'm not aware of anything in regards to SEPA CT scheme.
There's a general liability for the payment service provider. Read Articles 88 through 93 of the PSD, which I think are the relevant ones for what you're looking at.
EUR-Lex - 32015L2366 - EN - EUR-Lex
eur-lex.europa.eu
(It's section 111 onwards if you read the regulation as enacted in Irish legislation: https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/si/6/made/en/print )
It's not the kind of thing I like reading on a weekend!
Thanks very much RedOnion.
Understood that it falls under general liability for the payment service provider.
I will have a proper read of the Irish legislation section. From a quick look it seems that the liability is with the payer's payment service provider for correct execution of the payment transaction unless the payer made a mistake.
Understood that it falls under general liability for the payment service provider.
I will have a proper read of the Irish legislation section. From a quick look it seems that the liability is with the payer's payment service provider for correct execution of the payment transaction unless the payer made a mistake.
Yes. It's their responsibility to prove it's made it's way to payees account, etc. I don't think there's any 8 week rule, but the language would be "without undue delay" or something along those lines.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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While I am sure that this is true, just by asking for it, you are alerting them to the issue that you are intending to escalate it to the Ombudsman and that just might encourage them to take it seriously.
Brendan
Quick update:
- PTSB agent who did the first trace (which I heard nothing back on) is off, so a different agent has started a second seperate trace!!!
- PTSB have also started a recall. (But that did not work for Cooler Box).
- I have emailed the PTSB CEO.
I will contact the CBI on Friday and make a complaint against PTSB IT systems and controls if it is not fixed by then.
- PTSB agent who did the first trace (which I heard nothing back on) is off, so a different agent has started a second seperate trace!!!
- PTSB have also started a recall. (But that did not work for Cooler Box).
- I have emailed the PTSB CEO.
I will contact the CBI on Friday and make a complaint against PTSB IT systems and controls if it is not fixed by then.
The CEO of PTSB read my email!
Someone senior in PTSB phoned me. He is personally investigating what happened.
@Cooler_box - I told the CEO and the senior manager that I know someone else affected by the exact same issue. I suggest you email the CEO too with your details. I can DM the CEO's email address to you if needed.
Someone senior in PTSB phoned me. He is personally investigating what happened.
@Cooler_box - I told the CEO and the senior manager that I know someone else affected by the exact same issue. I suggest you email the CEO too with your details. I can DM the CEO's email address to you if needed.
Cooler_box
Registered User
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That’s great news. Glad you had a positive exchange with the CEO . Thanks so much for sharing this with me.
Thank you so much.
There is no point in complaining to the regulator until you have a Final Response letter from the bank.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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- 53,769
Towger
You are confusing the Central Bank with the Financial Ombudsman.
There is no point in complaining to the Financial Ombudsman at this stage.
By threatening to complain to the Central Bank, ptsb is likely to try to resolve the issue promptly to avoid such a referral.
Brendan
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I have an update on this.
PTSB have been very nice and helpful on this over the last 24 hours. As the poster Sunny suggested, PTSB really are living up to their more human branding.
The payment has now been traced. The payment is in a Citi Frankfurt account. But the payment has not gone from Citi Frankfurt to Trade Republic.
There was no Compliance block on the payment by Citi Ireland. There was no IT issue on the PTSB side.
The issue now seems to be an IT issue on the Trade Republic or Citi Frankfurt side or perhaps something else going on.
Citi Ireland is trying to deal with Citi Frankfurt to fix the issue but there are data protection restrictions around this, so there are limits to what Citi Ireland can do.
I am trying to deal with Trade Republic on this. I have escalated the matter on the Trade Republic side too. I have told Trade Republic that if they don't fix this issue with Citi Frankfurt by Friday I will be contacting the German regulator and CBI.
While I have some positive things to say about PTSB - they are not saints - the recall of the payment that they did was for the wrong payment (100% PTSB's issue) i.e. they recalled the wrong amount !!! They are now cancelling the incorrect recall and I will request a correct recall if TR/Citi don't solve the issue shortly.
PTSB have been very nice and helpful on this over the last 24 hours. As the poster Sunny suggested, PTSB really are living up to their more human branding.
The payment has now been traced. The payment is in a Citi Frankfurt account. But the payment has not gone from Citi Frankfurt to Trade Republic.
There was no Compliance block on the payment by Citi Ireland. There was no IT issue on the PTSB side.
The issue now seems to be an IT issue on the Trade Republic or Citi Frankfurt side or perhaps something else going on.
Citi Ireland is trying to deal with Citi Frankfurt to fix the issue but there are data protection restrictions around this, so there are limits to what Citi Ireland can do.
I am trying to deal with Trade Republic on this. I have escalated the matter on the Trade Republic side too. I have told Trade Republic that if they don't fix this issue with Citi Frankfurt by Friday I will be contacting the German regulator and CBI.
While I have some positive things to say about PTSB - they are not saints - the recall of the payment that they did was for the wrong payment (100% PTSB's issue) i.e. they recalled the wrong amount !!! They are now cancelling the incorrect recall and I will request a correct recall if TR/Citi don't solve the issue shortly.
Cooler_box
Registered User
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Well done. I’m pleased for you. My only question is why PTSB are not refunding the money to your account now, rather than making you wait? This is a point I have been banging on about to the PTSB who insist on tracing my funds first. They can’t give me a timeline for when they will conclude their investigation. Despite EU legislation which states that the sending bank is responsible for tracing and reimbursing lost funds within a given timeframe, they refuse to abide by the rules, even when they are 100% responsible. Regardless of whether the funds are traced or not, they are obliged to refund the money to my account. Raisin informed me this morning that they concluded their investigation and that they couldn’t locate the funds at their end, meaning they never received it. PTSB are claiming it was sent. Their OBPAY reference codes prove it. Has anyone here been in a similar situation and how was it resolved in the end?
It doesn't prove anything, except that PTSB tried to send the payment.
In an ideal world, a reimbursement would occur by sending bank after X days and the banks would sort it between themselves.
In the real world, there seems to be lack of clearly defined processes / consumer protection with missing SEPA transfers.
I will push for a reimbursement but only if I have exhausted all other options. I am not out of options yet. Citi might fix this. TR might fix this. A recall might work.
Push PTSB to complete a trace this week (it is taking too long for PTSB to complete in your case).
Push PTSB for a reimbursement, as the sending bank, if both the trace and recall have failed.
Push to speak to a senior manager.
It transited two banks. PTSB send their SEPA payments file to Citibank Europe in Ireland.
Don't see how a recall will work if it hasn't hit the beneficiaries account so not sure what PTSB are trying to achieve. What are these GDPR issues that Citi are talking about? If Ciit Frankfurt can't apply the funds as requested, they should be returning the funds straight away. You seem to have been told that the funds are sitting in some suspense account or some other account in Citi Frankfurt but that doesn't make sense. They can obviously see your money so the question is why weren't the funds applied or returned? There is something weird going on here.
To be honest, I would be telling PTSB and Citi Ireland that you are contacting the Central Bank at this stage....