Private schools (hidden extra fees)

EmmDee said:
The point about learning difficulties was made above. But I'd also add that IQ probably has less impact on grades in Junior and Leaving cycles. They aren't IQ tests.
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Of course they aren't IQ tests. But, on average, kids with higher IQs get better school grades. A hundred years of psychological research suggests that there is a general cognitive ability factor, and it influences achievement in all academic domains. There are exceptions at either end of course, but it's a pretty strong predictor.

Purple said:
The Leaving Cert is more a test of how good your memory is than what your IQ is.
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It's a test of application as well as general cognitive ability. But if you don't have the mental horsepower no amount of rote learning will get you through. A motorbike can't pull a laden trailer.


My overall point is that parents should relax because neither they, nor schools, make a huge difference.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
It's a test of application as well as general cognitive ability. But if you don't have the mental horsepower no amount of rote learning will get you through. A motorbike can't pull a laden trailer.
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If you are really really good at remembering stuff you'll do well no matter how thick you are and if you are really really smart and no good at remembering stuff you'll do badly.
 
Purple said:
If you are really really good at remembering stuff you'll do well no matter how thick you are and if you are really really smart and no good at remembering stuff you'll do badly.
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But being "able to remember stuff" is a pretty large part of being "smart".
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
But being "able to remember stuff" is a pretty large part of being "smart".
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No it isn't.
Knowing Boyle's law (just knowing it well enough to know that it's about gas and volume and pressure) and Google are all you need to know if you want . There are people who know Boyle's law but wouldn't think to use it to solve a particular problem.
So knowing PV=K means you have a good memory.
Knowing that Boyle's law can remove moisture from a gas circuit of a medical device at room temperature in a vacuum chamber (but not knowing the equation is PV=K) means you are smart.
When the Brits got outsmarted by an uneducated "darkie" they called it "native cunning" since they confused knowledge with intellect.
Some years ago the head of the Engineering Faculty in UCD told me to never confuse education with qualification.
 
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NoRegretsCoyote said:
My overall point is that parents should relax because neither they, nor schools, make a huge difference.
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Not sure about this to be honest. We moved one of our kids to a new school this year.....doing "fine" in the old school but we weren't fine. Since moving to the new school....a spring in the step every morning (and I know as I do the drops!). Confidence is up and as we check the homework, the standard is definitely up as well. So I think the right school can make a difference.
 
Firefly said:
Instead of trying to teach a class of 30, the teacher in a private school will only have to teach to a class of 20 or so. The same kid, from the same family, putting in the same effort would expect to do better in a smaller class would they not?
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That's not true. Private schools don't have small classes. They are about the same as public schools.
 
SBarrett said:
That's not true. Private schools don't have small classes. They are about the same as public schools.
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There are less than 15 in my child's class. The classes in the secondary school are between 20-22. Maybe the classes in Dublin are larger..
 
Firefly said:
There are less than 15 in my child's class. The classes in the secondary school are between 20-22. Maybe the classes in Dublin are larger..
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Varies from school to school I guess.

I have found that they usually have 25ish in each class. But then there might be 3-4 classes in a year. The school my daughter will be going to has 2 classes of 25. The other public and private schools we were looking at all have 120 pupils per year (not sure how many classes but I don't imagine there's 6-7, the schools weren't that big!).
 
To get back to Antoinett's initial question - I've no experience of paying privately for primary - but below is what my extras were for my daughter who (thankfully) is in 6th year now.

Parent Teachers Association 20
5th year ambassador program 5
Burren Field Trip 200 (she's doing Biology for LC, so apparently some sort of a field trip is required)
Essential Guidance Learners Record 10.50
Hockey Finals Bus 15
Lunch 104.80 (she normally brings in lunch with her, but sometime we tell her to get lunch in school)
Music Lessons Charges 350
Photocopying 1/2 year charge 11
SCT Rugby Bus / Tickets 8.50
Student Diary Planner 12
Year 5 Hamlet trip 7
Yearbook 25

Most of these "extras" would have been accrued during the second part of 5th year.
 
SBarrett said:
That's not true. Private schools don't have small classes. They are about the same as public schools.
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...on my tour of a Dublin private school last week with the Principal, in second class, class size they try for 22 but can go up to and max at 26. which i think they regularly do go to when i pushed for an answer of last few years numbers. In general class sizes are a few smaller then public schools but not by so many. In Dublin anyway.
 

Very helpful. Thank you.
 
94 posts and only one answers the actual question asked - is this a record for the number of off-question posts?
 
Thank you. I'm very impressed at all the replies. Interesting views. Surprised tho that no one (well i don't remember seeing any reference) to the private school business contacts/ connections you make going thru the private school system. I thought that was a biggie? I didn't go to private school but my partner did. and well i can tell you thats how he got into the current 'good' job. Ireland is still very much who you know, obviously that should change but its the nature of this small country. Also his dad told me that of all his 4 children, my partner needed the private schooling ethic of all the other kids working hard as he was a messer and would have been expelled (for stupid things) but for the fact he was between 2 other siblings who were there and behaved. They gave him chance after chance and eventually he realized he had to work hard to keep up with his friends or be left behind. My dad in law reckons it was worth every penny for that child. Both parents were all over the home aspect and were great parents. But if you've got a difficult kid in their teenage years who can be easily lead, this could be the making of them. - Wisdom from the father in law. And they struggled to pay all these fees they don't have a penny or a spare house to leave their kids but gave them the best education they could afford. That's what id like to do for my kids now. And i've definitely got one messer! And as has been said there will be sacrifices to be made. we dont have 12k laying around to pay for 2kids every year, but ill keep working to make it happen. I cant believe how stressful worrying about their education can be! and there only 4 and 7! and to answer someone who asked why primary school? because believe it not they will not get into secondary private if they dont start sooner then 6th class. everyones trying to get in at 5th and 6th class but that gap is closing very quickly the last couple of years as more people are sending their children to private. so all im doing is getting in a year or 2 earlier and taking the stress out of it for me and them as they will have all their friends made and be settled in by starting secondary. or maybe im mad!
 
Hi Anntionette, I get where you're coming from about putting them into primary school in 2nd or 3rd class in order to secure a place in secondary by default. Does the secondary school have a "siblings" rule i.e. if a child already has a brother / sister in the school then he/she will automatically get a place?

If so, would you consider just sending child #1 to the primary school in order to get them into the "secondary system" and then use the sibling rule to secure a place for child #2? It could save you ~€24K (assuming you were planning to send child #2 from 3rd class @ €6K per year). I know this might be seen as treating your kids differently, but if your main reason for doing this is just to secure a place in the secondary school, why would you pay on the double to achieve it?

My last child is nearly finished secondary school, but I must admit that my wife and I found it a struggle to put our 3 kids through private school, so I'd urge you to think long and hard about this. See this thread for more info:

Got a credit union loan to finance secondary and college fees, after remortgage refused

I have amended the title to reflect the outcome - Brendan Age: 48 Spouse age: 49 Annual gross income from employment or profession: €47K Annual gross income of spouse: €38K Type of employment self - Private Sector IT Type of employment spouse - Public Sector Rough value of home: €850000...
askaboutmoney.com
 
Thirsty said:
94 posts and only one answers the actual question asked - is this a record for the number of off-question posts?
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Obviously not a lot of experience with private primary schools.


Just been through it. My son is starting 1st year next year. Luckily we had a place in a decent school but just last week, he got accepted into our first preference. My daughter is in 3rd class and we have paid the deposit for a place in a private school after we realised she has no hope in being accepted into the public school we wanted her to go to.

I think that the big additional costs coming in secondary rather than primary, hearing of trips to China, New York and skiing in the winter!! Certainly not compulsory mind.

Before pressing the button for private primary school, look into the application process for the secondary school. As Ger said, the sibling rule will parachute child 2 to the top of the list. Unless you have a particular private school in mind, if you register an interest in a few, they will get a place in at least one.
 
SBarrett said:
I think that the big additional costs coming in secondary rather than primary, hearing of trips to China, New York and skiing in the winter!! Certainly not compulsory mind.
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Not that common - a small number of schools have done things like these though by no means are they universally taken up. By and large, the trips to places like Africa / Far East are connected to charity groups and are fund-raised (at least partially)

The school our kids went to had trips to Europe generally - but they weren't "whole of class" trips. They were connected to subjects. So there was a Geography trip in 5th year for example. There was a more general trip in Transition Year to Italy. Again not universal and I don't think there was any discussion about why someone may or may not go - it was pretty low key
 
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