Tadgh Beirne and Nick McCarthy didn't go to Blackrock then?Better chance of playing for Munster if you attend Blackrock College, e.g. Carbery, Conway, Loughman
Private schools (hidden extra fees)
- Thread starter anntionette
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I'm sticking to my guns i.e. in Cork exam results are almost the same in fee paying and non fee paying secondary schools. Of course, that does not mean that later the employment that is attained is on a par to each. I have to admit the fee paying students for whatever reason seem to be more successful getting into the coveted jobs.
Firefly is right though that there has been success in the paying schools of Cork competing in hurling. But, just ask the hurling students there if they have access to all the facilities and accolades the rugby players have.
Let's take the issue of some of the schools that Firefly wouldn't dream of using. I would argue that a top performing student there would be head and shoulders above the equivalent in fee paying schools in many ways, not just academia. I can only guess where some of these schools are but I've worked with former students of these schools and I can categorically say that they deserve any success they've earned. They've done it the hard way.
Firefly is right though that there has been success in the paying schools of Cork competing in hurling. But, just ask the hurling students there if they have access to all the facilities and accolades the rugby players have.
Let's take the issue of some of the schools that Firefly wouldn't dream of using. I would argue that a top performing student there would be head and shoulders above the equivalent in fee paying schools in many ways, not just academia. I can only guess where some of these schools are but I've worked with former students of these schools and I can categorically say that they deserve any success they've earned. They've done it the hard way.
Clongowes & Michaels, I believe. And Belvedere 'supplied' Downey, Keatley & Hart.
I guess there's a theme developing here
In fairness why would you know about fee paying schools in Dublin?
Well, in fairness, you've a better chance of knowing the Leinster schools attended by Munster players, as against the South African ones attended by the rest of the squad
Just Some MoreThoughts:- Are all our secondary schools merely focused on exam results? Do any of our schools prepare the student for the "real" world? Is there enough focus on 3rd Level education in our secondary schools? Are trades dismissed by secondary schools?
I didn't want to bring up league / feeder tables as these are not a holistic assessment of a school or a student, but as you've mentioned exams, I will mention it in this context.
The link below will download a PDF from the Irish Times for the feeder schools in 2018 (something to read in the sun!)
I'm not sure how many schools there are in Cork in total, but the 3 private schools in Cork city are placed 1, 3, 5 in Cork county. The top non paying schools are almost as good, so you are correct for these schools, but further down the list the % who go to 3rd level (and in particular those who go to university) really drops off.
Those same 3 private schools in Cork city come in at places 3,5,14 nationally. The highest placed non paying school in Cork city is 17 if you include Glanmire in the city, or else 21.
The top 100 schools in the country have been revealed
Did your school make the grade?The Sunday Times has compiled their list of the top 100 schools in the country...
www.joe.ie
I agree. It's hard to pinpoint the exact reasons for this. I think it's a plethora of things that can be grouped as environmental - parents, school & peers.
Head and shoulders above the equivalent? In what way?
In any case, even if you are right, I suspect that a lot of parents wouldn't like to take a chance.
Agree 100%...fair play to those who do it the hard way, but as a parent, why risk it if you can avoid it?
I'm glad you brought this up as it seems to be very important for a lot of schools & parents. Way too much so in my opinion.
I know you're away Leper in the sun, but in case you didn't see this in the news it's really worth a read!!
Dublin bar advertises for 'experienced snowflake' as co-owner says he was inspired by complaints from millennials
A DUBLIN café bar owner has said his exasperation with millennials "who can barely tie their laces" led him to post a joke job ad seeking to recruit an "experienced snowflake".
www.independent.ie
Steven Barrett
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Any kid that does well in school deserves it no matter what school they went to. The teachers in both fee paying and non fee paying schools come from the same pool of teachers. The child has to work hard to achieve good results no matter where they go to school.
Yes, particularly in more affluent areas.
It would be useful if students were thought how to make a tax return, cooking and general dietary education and other practical life skills.
Yes, particularly in more affluent areas. Speaking as a Tradesperson I can say that educational snobbery in this country is remarkable and young people will be encouraged to do a useless degree in a subject the student has no real interest in rather than a Trade for which they may have an interest and an aptitude. The result is we generally get a lower calibre of student going into trades and, particularly in my area (engineering), a low calibre of tradesperson.
Thankfully countries such as Poland and Lithuania have excellent trade schools which have a high prestige and produce excellent tradespeople.
The teachers may come from the same pool but in disadvantaged areas they have to deal with larger class sizes as well the difficulties kids from disadvantaged areas can typically face. The Deis program is trying to address some of these issues, but compared to going to a private school, a kid who does well coming from a disadvantaged area deserves more credit in my opinion.
No reason today that anyone going into a trade with their head screwed on couldn't do very well for themselves. I know someone well who went into a trade straight after school & retired in his 30s
I agree, but they generally don't.No reason today that anyone going into a trade with their head screwed on couldn't do very well for themselves. I know someone well who went into a trade straight after school & retired in his 30s
A good tradesperson should earn over €60k a year and can earn far more than that.
DEIS schools have much more resources and smaller class sizes than private schools. The problem is that the parents generally have a lower educational level and so cannot help their kids as much with homework and there is no culture of educational attainment. Kids from poor rural backgrounds generally do far better educationally than their urban counterparts. That tells us that the problem is mainly cultural which makes it far harder to fix.
There's a lot of BS talked about sending kids to grind schools but the child of a teacher or someone with a generally high level of educational attainment has that same advantage at home.
Gordon Gekko
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It is less about the school and more about the domestic environment and whether it’s conducive to achievement.
In a private school, it’s the case that more families are pulling in the same direction and, quite simply, “have a plan”.
In a private school, it’s the case that more families are pulling in the same direction and, quite simply, “have a plan”.
There's the important factor of parents to take into consideration also. Sadly, an awful lot of them are rather loud when results are not what they feel they're entitled to, but not half as interested when it comes to helping their children achieve the result, or have the home environment in place to do so.
I think there are 3 pieces to the puzzle....home, school & peers. The school will largely determine the peers, so if responsible parents who encourage education at home pick the right school, they really have the main bases covered. Of course, you can only bring a horse to water and if the kid has no interest whatsoever in school then it won't matter a jot...but at least as a parent can say you did your bit!
I genuinely think it's 60% minimum home life. Having parents who are focused on education, even if they have a very low level, is key. I am from a disadvantaged rural background, my parents had no opportunity for education beyond primary school but they directed and enabled their children to achieve degrees and masters, or support for a trade if that was what we wanted. Very little spent on grinds and attending what is probably a Deis school now. We thrived because we had the right environment at home, and navigated the variety of quality of teachers. I do believe that career success after this is based on personality and soft skills, innate or learned.