The SF today under MLM is vibrant, rejuvenated and never more confident.
I take it from this that you accept that the PIRA Army council are to SF what Union apparatchiks are to Labour. Yes it is allowed within our democracy but it should rule them out as acceptable partners in government for any "constitutional" party. MLM should make it clear who is really pulling the strings in her movement.wolfie said:If the 'threat' is a political ideology, then I would respectfully remind you that is the very essence of a parliamentary democracy.
I take it from this that you accept that the IRA Army council are to SF what Union apparatchiks are to Labour.
I think the IRA accepted that 35 years ago. They have successfully morphed their organisation into a political party. What concerns me is the number of times the phrase IRA comes up when I'm talking to friends who are in areas awash with drugs and criminality. The only way to think that's gone away is to be wilfully ignorant.I'm saying that the principle of achieving a united Irish Republic, alá 1916, through military force is dead.
I fear their links to criminality, not at the top level but at the rank and file level.
In my opinion there is a high likelihood that the Army Council of the IRA is the real leadership of SF.So they are not being directed by an Army Council out of West Belfast? Its now down to the rank and file that, by the sounds of your reasoning are involved in criminality, in particular the drugs trade?
I think the idea that today's SF grassroots are rosary clutching anti-gay antediluvians is a complete misconception. Gerry McGeough as you say is no longer a member of SF.www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/anti-gay-ex-ira-man-gerry-mcgeough-punched-at-pride-parade-to-protest-at-new-lgbtq-event-in-omagh-40879939.html
Gerry Mcgeough while no longer a member of SF illustrates the problem SF will have if they ever get to power, while the party hierarchy is all liberal and socialist alot of its membership is not. Gerry Mcgeough was of the old Nationalist Catholic wing of the party that did alot of the "fighting" during the troubles and are not too impressed with the direction of the party. He said the hunger strikers would be turning in their graves at the modern SF.
However I think this "macho" element of the IRA explains alot of the attraction to SF by young males who are not well versed on SF policies but this element of cordite and danger is the attraction, So SF is the ultimate catch all party like FF was.
The is evidenced in the attendance at the funerals of terrorists by SF leadership and their unwillingness to commemorate or condemn the murder of Gardaí by IRA terrorists.
You're not following the plot, Wolfie. Gerry McCabe was not murdered, it was manslaughter, a botched robbery gone horribly wrong, it certainly did not serve SF/IRA purposes.But why would you think SF leadership would be willing to condemn the murder of Gardai during the conflict?
They stand full square behind the IRA campaign. They believe it was a legitimate war albeit they have acknowledged that some atrocities were wrong and should never have happened, such as the murder of Gerry McCabe.
Many of their supporters are young and 'woke' , many more though are hard core nationalists especially some of its tds who love all the "tiocaidh ar la" stuff, many of its supporters are attracted by that hard core macho image which the violent campaign gives them. But that's the problem SF will have in the future they can't keep all these different elements on board,The typical SF supporter is young and as 'woke' as their counterparts anywhere else, Imperialism may loom larger relatively speaking in their consciousness than in similar groups elsewhere but they are as idealistic and internationalist as any.
I think that's a very good point. There is a cohort of under educated young men from what is erroneously referred to as 'working class' areas who feel disenfranchised. The hard-man image of the Shinner grass roots is very attractive to them.many of its supporters are attracted by that hard core macho image which the violent campaign gives them.
many of its supporters are attracted by that hard core macho image which the violent campaign gives them.
There is a cohort of under educated young men from what is erroneously referred to as 'working class' areas who feel disenfranchised. The hard-man image of the Shinner grass roots is very attractive to them.
That's not my experience.Well I can only comment from my own experience, and while that is not extensive, I did have a drink a few weeks ago with a group of young people all politically involved and if they were not all SF supporters it was because SF was not edgy enough for them.
There was absolutely no macho hard man attitude from these people, strongly feminist, pro-LGBTI+, and the organising male of the group was an artist very into creative expression.
There is a disconnect between the upper echelons of the Shinners elected representatives and the grass roots (and the puppet masters) but I'm a big fan of their social agenda. It's their unapologetic links to child killers and their crazy populist economic policies that I have a big problem with.It's no coincidence that the top leadership of SF is female. Of course some of you will think that is just a pretence too. A female leadership is the image SF seeks to portray and it is the image it believes will attract and hold its support.
InterestingThere is a disconnect between the upper echelons of the Shinners elected representatives and the grass roots (and the puppet masters) but I'm a big fan of their social agenda.
We will have to agree to be in possession of different historical facts hereIt's their unapologetic links to child killers
Oh, I thought that killed children. Am I wrong? Johnathan Ball and Tim Parry must have blown themselves up. How careless of them.We will have to agree to be in possession of different historical facts here
The Shinners have the same populist policies as FF in the 70's. It took decades to recover from that lot.I agree with you here, yet I do think that if SF were in power there would be a fairly rapid dose of reality and I do not doubt that SF would adjust.
Your justification is based on whataboutery and historical references and is just silly. I'm not going down that rabbit hole again.
as Michael McDowell reminds us, that the IRA are the legitimate army of Ireland and Gardai etc. are traitors.
That is not what the current discussion is about.And as I keep trying to remind you, the IRA have been stood down. There is no IRA in the military sense.
SF have signed up to the Policing Board of NI. They advocate for people to report criminal behaviour to the Gardaí.
The recognise the legal authority of the 26 county Parliament and the Court system.
They seek to change this of course, but through peaceful political argument.
McDowell is just part of the residue of a by-gone era. Stuck in 20th century Irish politics. He can huff and puff all he wants but he cannot accept the reality that the sands have shifted under his feet.
The current discussion is about whether senior elements of their military wing
like the suspicious absence of the SF councillor from the commemoration of Gardai assassinated by the IRA in 1941, would attendance have offended the puppet masters?
Also could MLM, or indeed MON have declined to attend the Bobby Storey funeral, say on the grounds of Covid compliance?
Ah dear! You are worse than @tecate, remember her.Why on earth would MLM want to decline to attend the Bobby Storey funeral?
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