Politicians - the next generation

[Betsy Og]

Is that clear enough for you? Lowry is just as bad as Haughey et al.

I wasnt for canonising the man, but as a matter of interest do you have a fundamental disagreement with discerning different levels of guilt or gravity of offences?

If you were sentencing them would you apply a "flat rate" sentence or would each case be on its own merits? I'm not (I hope) being too argumentative, just wondering if you think theres even scope for differing levels (ignoring the individuals mentioned).

For me (and again this is just a personal view - I'm not battering anyone over the head with it) but I think seeking/demanding corrupt payments is more deliberate and a worse offence than tax evasion... (now I'll jump into my bunker ! )

 

[diarmuidc]

Yet - a politician who represents the country cannot get their hair washed?

I think most people have no problem with the expense. The problem was the scale and attitude to these expenses. A $400 hair wash is clearly a waste of money when $50 should be more than enough. If this was a one off thing then ok however the perception is that this waste is duplicated across the public service. Why is this? Because there is no metric for performance and until there is, this will continue.

What expenses do the mandrians at RTE and the Irish Times claim?

Two different cases. I don't care what the IT spends on it's expenses as I don't pay for it. I do pay for RTE hence I do care if there is waste.

 

[Green]

I wasnt for canonising the man, but as a matter of interest do you have a fundamental disagreement with discerning different levels of guilt or gravity of offences?

If you were sentencing them would you apply a "flat rate" sentence or would each case be on its own merits? I'm not (I hope) being too argumentative, just wondering if you think theres even scope for differing levels (ignoring the individuals mentioned).

For me (and again this is just a personal view - I'm not battering anyone over the head with it) but I think seeking/demanding corrupt payments is more deliberate and a worse offence than tax evasion... (now I'll jump into my bunker ! )

I am not going to support a view that there is or could be a hierarchy of offences for elected public representatives or say that certain offences, such as tax evasion, are ok for them. When you opt to go into public life this should mean compliance with certain standards of behaviour and a duty to uphold the laws of the State.

You state that tax evasion is the lessor of the two offences, would you still think the same way if a relative died while waiting for an operation on a public health waiting list?

 

[Betsy Og]

YOBR - its like - which is worse, rape or murder?

I'd say murder, but both are heinous crimes and its not like I support rape.
The sentences handed out reflect this distinction.

I've always been amused by the hysteria that tax evasion seems to attract on this site, ritual slaughter of babies, puppies and cute little bunnies wouldnt hold a candlelight to it.

Re the operation - there could never be such a direct link, maybe 2 hairdo's less for Mary & the gals and they could have had the op, maybe 20,000 less people in "sheltered employment" in the Civil Service could have paid for an Op for us all. I know you'll accuse me of equivocation on tax evasion, I dont support tax evasion, but I'm leaving my puritanical zeal in the locker on this one.

 

[Green]

Re the operation - there could never be such a direct link, maybe 2 hairdo's less for Mary & the gals and they could have had the op, maybe 20,000 less people in "sheltered employment" in the Civil Service could have paid for an Op for us all.

Your contradicting yourself, first you say there is no link between tax revenues and public services then you go on to suggest that there is? Which is it? Are you really that niave to think that there is no link between Govt revenues and the services the State can provide? People do die waiting for operations in this country....

As a matter of interest, what standards do you expect of politicians, is it that there are some offences that are ok for you?

 

[Betsy Og]

Your contradicting yourself, first you say there is no link between tax revenues and public services then you go on to suggest that there is? Which is it? Are you really that niave to think that there is no link between Govt revenues and the services the State can provide? People do die waiting for operations in this country....

As a matter of interest, what standards do you expect of politicians, is it that there are some offences that are ok for you?

Look, I know we wont reach agreement on this so I wont waste your time with endless argument.

A few closing remarks:
Is an individual tax defaulter responsible for someone's death? No. Does the poor application of funds lead to deaths? Yes. OK the country cant pay for everything it would like, but most agree that underfunding is not the reason for a poor health service - spending has spiralled, services have not improved to any great degree and its not for lack of money.
So, emotive and all as the alleged linkages are, I dont think they stack up.

I expect policitians, and indeed all of us, to be spotless in our law abiding, but I've held back on summary execution for the sinners.

 

[ubiquitous]

You state that tax evasion is the lessor of the two offences, would you still think the same way if a relative died while waiting for an operation on a public health waiting list?

This is a daft argument. The HSE's budget increased by billions in recent years and we still have waiting lists. The more money that has been thrown at it, the more has been wasted.

To say that Joe Cowboy is responsible for someone's death on a trolley because he didn't pay a matter of thousands in tax is ludicrous.