OT posts re teacher T&C's removed from AIB Redundancy Thread

[liaconn]

thedaras;.



Which is why I wrote,their agreement would have to be given (but perhaps you missed that bit)..

I must have missed it as well. You seemed to be saying an independent body should be set up rather than having teachers and unions involved.

 

[liaconn]

Most grinds are done in "grind schools".where there are the same amount of pupils (some obviously have less students as do some schools) so no ,I dont think that is the answer.

Perhaps the reason people need grinds is because of the amount of subjects they have to study for the leaving cert. Someone in work yesterday was just saying that in Northern Irl where she comes from there is nothing like the number of students having grinds because students specialise in 3 subjects for their A levels. Having to study 7 subjects at leaving cert standard in 2 years is unrealistic, in my view.

 

[thedaras]

Perhaps the reason people need grinds is because of the amount of subjects they have to study for the leaving cert. Someone in work yesterday was just saying that in Northern Irl where she comes from there is nothing like the number of students having grinds because students specialise in 3 subjects for their A levels. Having to study 7 subjects at leaving cert standard in 2 years is unrealistic, in my view.

Yes I agree with you..

Its the same in Scotland and I think Italy as well,the students specialise in certain subjects that they have a particular interest/flair for.

I agree ,there are way too many subjects to cover.
Smacks of jack of all trades..

 

[thedaras]

I must have missed it as well. You seemed to be saying an independent body should be set up rather than having teachers and unions involved.

Well here it is again;

thedaras;

And therein lies the problem ...nothing will change..we need an independent body to set the school term times..

A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions.

.as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.[/QUOTE]

Yes,I do think we need an independent body,and not rely on vested interests to set the term times,it is after all human nature to look after number one.
My point is that unless the teachers and unions are in agreement with any change to the term times,there is little or no chance of anything happening,so yes we need their agreement..and why would they agree!!

 

[Deiseblue]

As there is little or no visible public demand for an extension to the standardised school year perhaps we should accept that the deciding body as currently constituted have got things right ?

After all aren't the parent organisations part of the deciding process ?

 

[Mpsox]

As there is little or no visible public demand for an extension to the standardised school year perhaps we should accept that the deciding body as currently constituted have got things right ?

After all aren't the parent organisations part of the deciding process ?

Actually, the Labour party are looking at possibly extending the school year to improve literacy levels and also summer literacy camps.
[broken link removed]

 

[Deiseblue]

Actually, the Labour party are looking at possibly extending the school year to improve literacy levels and also summer literacy camps.
[broken link removed]

There is no reference to extending the school year in that article.

There is a reference to giving consideration to extending the primary school day by half an hour for schools who do not meet literacy targets.

The plan to improve levels of literacy by devoting more time to the problem is to be applauded & hopefully this will enable all schools to meet targets.

 

[Mpsox]

There is no reference to extending the school year in that article.

There is a reference to giving consideration to extending the primary school day by half an hour for schools who do not meet literacy targets.

The plan to improve levels of literacy by devoting more time to the problem is to be applauded & hopefully this will enable all schools to meet targets.

Absolutley agree, my arguement is not that the school year needs to be extended(although that's one option) but rather that kids, in general, spend too little time in school in Ireland. It would be good to see specific targerts set as well, although unless action gets taken against teachers who persistantly fail to meet their targets (and I accept there may need to be allowances for the circumstances of the class being taught) targets don't mean much.

 

[liaconn]

I would have no problem with the school day and year being regularly reviewed. But when the starting point of the argument is 'why should teachers get such long holidays' the discussion loses any validity.

 

[Purple]

I would have no problem with the school day and year being regularly reviewed. But when the starting point of the argument is 'why should teachers get such long holidays' the discussion loses any validity.

I agree.
That said I don't know any parent that is happy that their childs school year is so short.
I also don't know any parent who's stupid enough to think it will change any time soon.

 

[Sunny]

I would have no problem with the school day and year being regularly reviewed. But when the starting point of the argument is 'why should teachers get such long holidays' the discussion loses any validity.

But why should they? Everyone gets all antsy when the question is asked but nobody gives a proper answer to explain it. It's like when you criticise nurses. As has already being mentioned, we have all these teachers and yet we still pay over 100 euro a day for nearly 5000 exam superintendents and over 6000 examiners. Why are we letting people go on holidays when there is work to be done and then pay them extra to come in and do the work?

Are we honestly saying that every secondary school teacher fits in a standard working year in the 33 weeks that they are required to be in school? Even if they work an extra 20 hours a week on top of the 22 contracted teaching hours, they are working 1386 hours a year. It would only take someone working a 35 hour week, 39.5 weeks to match that. Anyone here getting 12.5 weeks holidays??

Fair play to teachers. It is not their fault but are we honestly saying that we are getting the most out of a valuable resource?

 

[liaconn]

But why should they? Everyone gets all antsy when the question is asked but nobody gives a proper answer to explain it. It's like when you criticise nurses. As has already being mentioned, we have all these teachers and yet we still pay over 100 euro a day for nearly 5000 exam superintendents and over 6000 examiners. Why are we letting people go on holidays when there is work to be done and then pay them extra to come in and do the work?

Are we honestly saying that every secondary school teacher fits in a standard working year in the 33 weeks that they are required to be in school? Even if they work an extra 20 hours a week on top of the 22 contracted teaching hours, they are working 1386 hours a year. It would only take someone working a 35 hour week, 39.5 weeks to match that. Anyone here getting 12.5 weeks holidays??

Fair play to teachers. It is not their fault but are we honestly saying that we are getting the most out of a valuable resource?

I am saying that the school year or day should only be extended, or extra classes organised during holidays if it is to the benefit of the children, their development and their well being. Whether or not the teachers benefit as well from the hours is not the point. Stretching them or bringing less bright children into school during the holidays simply to get more out of the teachers would be wrong. That should only be done if it is good for the children.