OT posts re teacher T&C's removed from AIB Redundancy Thread

Deiseblue said:
No , if you read my previous post ( post no. 42 ) I stated clearly that the standardised school year was set by school managers , teacher UNIONS ,parent organisations & other relevant bodies.
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Interesting that in post no 50 when you referred to "best qualified", you omitted unions.

Some other thoughts, I know in the school my little un will be going to, 6th class pupils help out with junior and senior infants, the idea being that it will help teach the bigger kids responsibilities. I think that is an excellent idea

There are also a lot of post school activities, usually led by a teacher (school band, acting, cooking, computers etc). To me, teachers who go the extra mile like that should be rewarded more.
 
Deiseblue said:
No , if you read my previous post ( post no. 42 ) I stated clearly that the standardised school year was set by school managers , teacher UNIONS ,parent organisations & other relevant bodies.
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Yep but did you forget to mention it here?;


Deiseblue said:
The other argument is that the standardised school year is set by those most involved & those best qualified - school management , teachers & parent organisations.

From what I can gather direct Government involvement is minimal.
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Dont see any mention of unions there.
 
thedaras said:
Yep but did you forget to mention it here?;



Dont see any mention of unions there.
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Because the Unions don't 'set' the school year. They would be involved in ensuring that teachers' rights as employees are respected, that's all.
 
Semantics Liaconn..its all vested interests that are "setting" the times ..and it does all depend on the agenda of those who "set " the term dates.

I wonder if there was an independent group ,what their opinion of the school hours/holidays would be..
 
No, its not semantics. The Union has a particular role and that role does not include setting the school year. It includes a negotiation role if their members have legitimate concerns about any changes. But there's absolutely no way they can just insist that the school year is to be nice and short so the teachers can have lovely holidays.
 
Deiseblue said:
The other argument is that the standardised school year is set by those most involved & those best qualified - school management , teachers & parent organisations.

From what I can gather direct Government involvement is minimal.
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To clarify matters , let me state that that the other argument is that the standardised school year is set by those most involved & those best qualified - school management , teacher unions representing their members & parent bodies.

The omission of any reference to unions was not in any way deliberate as a reading of my post no. 42 surely demonstrates ?

The standardised school year has been agreed , such agreement continues until Easter 2014 & the above mentioned parties will then meet again to standardise the school year for a further period.
 
And therein lies the problem ...nothing will change..we need an independent body to set the school term times..

A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions..as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.
 
thedaras said:
And therein lies the problem ...nothing will change..we need an independent body to set the school term times..

A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions..as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.
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And who would the independent body consist of? What expertise would they need?
 
thedaras said:
And therein lies the problem ...nothing will change..we need an independent body to set the school term times..

A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions..as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.
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Just help me understand this - you'd be quite happy for YOUR employer to be able to unilaterally change your working hours/days without any discussion, consultation or negotation - right?
 
thedaras said:
And therein lies the problem ...nothing will change..we need an independent body to set the school term times..

A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions..as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.
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But that's working on the presumption that there is a problem.

I have seen no great outcry about the standardised school year - most parents seem quite happy with the current position , no call from the Government or parent organisations for any change to the current position.

So there we are until 2014 when the school year will be reviewed again.
 
Deiseblue said:
But that's working on the presumption that there is a problem.

I have seen no great outcry about the standardised school year - most parents seem quite happy with the current position , no call from the Government or parent organisations for any change to the current position.

So there we are until 2014 when the school year will be reviewed again.
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Exactly. Surely if huge numbers of parents had a problem they would be lobbying for changes?
 
Mpsox said:
And yet, why do so many parents send their children for grinds?
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Like I said in a previous post I personally think three months for secondary school kids is too long. However, there doesn't seem to be a general demand to shorten the holidays and, as I am neither a parent or a teacher, I am no expert.

I don't think any primary school children go for grinds.
 
Deiseblue said:
But that's working on the presumption that there is a problem.

I have seen no great outcry about the standardised school year - most parents seem quite happy with the current position , no call from the Government or parent organisations for any change to the current position.

So there we are until 2014 when the school year will be reviewed again.
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Yes, it is working on the presumption that there is a problem..
And yes I agree also that there is no great outcry.
And yes, we are where we are until 2014.
Maybe people are very happy with the school term times..thats fine,I was just putting my opinion forward,as are those who see no problem with it..
 
thedaras;
A principal/manager wouldn't stand a chance.The parents wouldn't stand a chance, the only ones that would have any power in the above agreement are the teachers and the unions..as unless you have their agreement its a waste of the paper its not written on.
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.

Complainer said:
Just help me understand this - you'd be quite happy for YOUR employer to be able to unilaterally change your working hours/days without any discussion, consultation or negotation - right?
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Which is why I wrote,their agreement would have to be given (but perhaps you missed that bit)..
 
Deiseblue said:
For concentrated one - to - one attention in surroundings where the pupil's mind does not have the opportunity to wander ?
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Most grinds are done in "grind schools".where there are the same amount of pupils (some obviously have less students as do some schools) so no ,I dont think that is the answer.
 
thedaras said:
Most grinds are done in "grind schools".where there are the same amount of pupils (some obviously have less students as do some schools) so no ,I dont think that is the answer.
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In my experience most grinds are given on a one to basis.

Guess we'll have to disagree on that one .
 
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