Non residents - risk of no ARF option

I have also recently found the article on changes on ARF taxation and Im shocked that revenue now that pension contributions is obligatory since 2024 has done nothing to resolve this mess on ARFs for non nationals or nationals looking to retire abroad.To transfer your pension abroad before you retire is the answer in paper however it cannot be done today with many EU countries coz the benefits need to be similar n that does not happen with countries like Spain or France (ive done some research on it).

Currently pension groups only do transfers with the UK. I cannot confirm this 100pc but i have been told already by 2 schemes they dont provide the service and that they dont know who provides it in Ireland. To do a transfer within the EU is too complex and thats why no provider wants to do it unfortunately.
 
VInterested said:
I have also recently found the article on changes on ARF taxation and Im shocked that revenue now that pension contributions is obligatory since 2024 has done nothing to resolve this mess on ARFs for non nationals or nationals looking to retire abroad.To transfer your pension abroad before you retire is the answer in paper however it cannot be done today with many EU countries coz the benefits need to be similar n that does not happen with countries like Spain or France (ive done some research on it).

Currently pension groups only do transfers with the UK. I cannot confirm this 100pc but i have been told already by 2 schemes they dont provide the service and that they dont know who provides it in Ireland. To do a transfer within the EU is too complex and thats why no provider wants to do it unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s terrible, isn’t. All these people who got tax relief from the Irish State are being prevented from transferring their pensions out of Ireland and trousering the cash tax-free.

ARF it before you go and while you have an Irish address. Then pay your taxes in Ireland where you got the tax relief.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Yes, it’s terrible, isn’t. All these people who got tax relief from the Irish State are being prevented from transferring their pensions out of Ireland and trousering the cash tax-free.

ARF it before you go and while you have an Irish address. Then pay your taxes in Ireland where you got the tax relief.
Click to expand...
I'm good with that as long as you dont get landed with additional tax liabilities in the country you move to which I suspect is not always the case.
 
Being able to transfer your pension abroad very much depends on what type of pension it is in. The best option is leaving it in an occupational pension scheme.
  1. If the money is in an Occupational pension scheme, a transfer may be possible to a IORPS scheme.
  2. If the money is in a PRSA, a transfer may be possible to a IORPS scheme but it may trigger a tax liability.
  3. If benefits are in a Buy Out Bond, a transfer is not possible and you can only transfer these benefits to the UK.
I have implemented an ARF for someone living in the UK with ITC. Not sure if they will do it for those living in other EU countries or the US, it's not something that I deal with that often.

The US is always difficult to deal with. Try to invest in the EU if you are a US citizen and do your tax returns!! No one wants to take your money and it ends up being very expensive as the taxes you pay every year on your investments to the IRS aren't offsetable against the taxes you pay in Ireland.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Yes, it’s terrible, isn’t. All these people who got tax relief from the Irish State are being prevented from transferring their pensions out of Ireland and trousering the cash tax-free.

ARF it before you go and while you have an Irish address. Then pay your taxes in Ireland where you got the tax relief.
Click to expand...

There's no consistency, it's not the same situation for annuities. There's no rule or even expectation that tax relief must be repaid - usually it won't be as the income level isn't high enough. (I'd distinguish between regular mainly self funded DC pensions versus pensions where the employer side is doing most of the work.)

Revenue solo runs are a problem, taxing authorities in other countries can be even worse than Revenue. If something is unusual or unique to Ireland it's a problem when you go to explain especially if you're not at native level in that language.

Gordon Gekko said:
You wouldn’t. Taxes higher than Irish taxes aren’t really a thing!
Click to expand...
Taxes higher than Ireland are a thing at lower to middle Irish incomes, especially in countries with a lower cost of living where someone with a small or medium sized ARF might choose/need to live. People retiring are moving down the income ladder usually.

The problem is the lack of clarity on double taxation, getting taxed in Ireland would often be preferable.
 
I believe very few double tax agreement treaties explicitly mention ARFs. So, there's a risk that you pay the tax in Ireland on your distribution and that's not recognized in your new country of residence and they demand that you pay local tax on the same distribution. Could get very expensive.
With an annuity, you can get an exemption from paying the tax in Ireland and then just have to pay the tax in your new country of residence.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Yes, it’s terrible, isn’t. All these people who got tax relief from the Irish State are being prevented from transferring their pensions out of Ireland and trousering the cash tax-free.

ARF it before you go and while you have an Irish address. Then pay your taxes in Ireland where you got the tax relief.
Click to expand...
No. Thats not the problem at all. You are going to pay taxes anyway and i wld not have any issue if it was paid in Ireland. But why would you have to pay the highest % (on the whole distribution) and not being able to use an ARF in Ireland and get your distribution paid in a SEPA account from another EU country after tax?

Also and this for you to be aware. This issue affects Irish people too not only non nationals. Do you know how many Irish people are living in Spain n France using great social services without having contributed to any of them?? If they have a pension in Ireland im sure they will also wld prefer to be able to use their ARF rather than having to cash it fully in one go before living.
 
VInterested said:
No. Thats not the problem at all. You are going to pay taxes anyway and i wld not have any issue if it was paid in Ireland. But why would you have to pay the highest % (on the whole distribution) and not being able to use an ARF in Ireland and get your distribution paid in a SEPA account from another EU country after tax?

Also and this for you to be aware. This issue affects Irish people too not only non nationals. Do you know how many Irish people are living in Spain n France using great social services without having contributed to any of them?? If they have a pension in Ireland im sure they will also wld prefer to be able to use their ARF rather than having to cash it fully in one go before leaving
Click to expand...
 
VInterested said:
No. Thats not the problem at all. You are going to pay taxes anyway and i wld not have any issue if it was paid in Ireland. But why would you have to pay the highest % (on the whole distribution) and not being able to use an ARF in Ireland and get your distribution paid in a SEPA account from another EU country after tax?

Also and this for you to be aware. This issue affects Irish people too not only non nationals. Do you know how many Irish people are living in Spain n France using great social services without having contributed to any of them?? If they have a pension in Ireland im sure they will also wld prefer to be able to use their ARF rather than having to cash it fully in one go before living.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand your post, sorry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top