Interesting (to me, anyway) piece by Stephen Collins in Saturday's Irish Times.
[broken link removed]
Indeed, less that six months ago Cowen was boasting of taking people out of the tax net. FromIt's mad Ted! We've spent the last 10 years listening to how people on the minimum wage should be taken out of the tax net, that this was a priorty, yada, yada, yada.
Now, all of a sudden, they act all surprised that low-paid workers are not paying much/any tax and claim that a situation like this is not sustainable! But if it's not sustainable now, how could it ever have been sustainable? Surely sustainable means that it can last through a variety of good and bad times.
We took 500,000 such workers out of the tax net altogether over the past decade.
So what is 'many'? Wouldn't it be nice if all our politicians who keep telling us how the private sector has been devastated actually know what this number was?More than zero. Many more than zero.
It may be a surprise to you, but I was pretty clear on the fact that my employer was the taxman when I moved from private sector to public sector. I share your 'more power to them' view, as it happens.You and others with this line of thinking need to reconcile the dual nature of the government as both your employer and the taxman.
Like many other employers they have cut the wages of their employees. Some workers in the country aren't going to get hit, some are still getting pay rises. I suggest public sector workers deal with this reality. More power to them, their companies are obviously still doing well and should be commended for their hard work in contributing to the exchequer.
Not yet. Wait for the next election...This isn't a socialist paradise yet.
Interesting (to me, anyway) piece by Stephen Collins in Saturday's Irish Times.
[broken link removed]
Excerpt (underlines are my choice)
"The figures on this are quite stark. Just 6 per cent of the workforce earn more than €100,000 a year, yet they contribute 47 per cent of the tax take. The top 1 per cent of earners on €200,000 or over contribute 21 per cent of the total tax take. While people on such large incomes should certainly be asked to pay more in the current national emergency, the exclusion of the bottom 40 per cent of the workforce from the tax net is no longer sustainable.
In this country workers don’t pay any tax, PRSI or the income levy if they earn less than €18,000. By contrast, in Britain all income above €6,860 is subject to income tax at 20 per cent. Most EU countries follow the British example and bring workers into the tax net at a much lower income threshold than in Ireland.
..
Similarly any increase in the basic 20 per cent rate of tax will also provoke outrage but the Government really has no choice in the matter. Every 1 per cent increase in the standard rate will generate an extra €535 million in revenue in a full year, compared to an extra €220 million for every percentage increase in the top rate."
Do Fianna Fail have the political courage to widen the tax net and get more people paying a higher standard rate of tax ? This will infuriate the unions, but, how else can they get a similar amount from the tax base ?
You must put this into real word figures to make it more scary:
about 213822 people are contributing a full of 47 per cent of the tax take.
about 35637 people are contributing a full 21 per cent of the tax take.
If one of the 35637 leaves the state (or pulls a Bono) the state is out of 0.0005 % of it's taxes!
And now they want to rely even more on this group? What if 100 of the 35637 people leave? 0.05% of tax income gone!
Madness.
This doesn't make any sense - how can a replacement private sector worker earning less and paying less tax be a good thing for government finances?NO It will be one less exorbitant salary the government will have to pay. The replacement worker will no doubt be on a lower salary. I f the worker is in the private sector even lower still.
There are some highly paid people who won't move - medical consultants are the stand-out group for me - there's no way they could get the same public pay/private practice set-up they have here. But there are many people who are very mobile - finance professionals for example are often working in global markets anyway so it doesn't really matter where they are located. Many probably would prefer to stay here - but not if they are going to get bent over in being asked to pay really high taxes without meaningful cuts in public spending and a widening of the tax base so there isn't the ridiculous situation (a major anomaly in the EU) where 40% of people pay NO income tax (but still feel entitled to bleat on about 'fair shares').And no I don`t think ,you should worry that these high earners will chuck in their high paid jobs to leave the state.They know which side their bread is buttered on.People who can decide in which country they pay their tax are relatively few and have already made their decision by and large.
This doesn't make any sense - how can a replacement private sector worker earning less and paying less tax be a good thing for government finances?
There are some highly paid people who won't move - medical consultants are the stand-out group for me - there's no way they could get the same public pay/private practice set-up they have here. But there are many people who are very mobile - finance professionals for example are often working in global markets anyway so it doesn't really matter where they are located. Many probably would prefer to stay here - but not if they are going to get bent over in being asked to pay really high taxes without meaningful cuts in public spending and a widening of the tax base so there isn't the ridiculous situation (a major anomaly in the EU) where 40% of people pay NO income tax (but still feel entitled to bleat on about 'fair shares').
Not yet. Wait for the next election...
This doesn't make any sense - how can a replacement private sector worker earning less and paying less tax be a good thing for government finances?
I was responding to a prvious posters concerns about workers leaving their jobs in this state to work abroad because of increased taxes here.
Since this is a global downturn,I would imagine austerity measures will be in place worlwide .Even if a certain worker left his job ,I am sure his /her employer would have no problem filling that vacany ,probably at a lower rate.
Recently many companies have ceased operations here or moved abroad for lower labour costs,with subsequent massive loss of tax revenue to our government.My point is that lowering our cost base and wages are helping companies survive and still contribute to the tax base.
... concerns about workers leaving their jobs in this state to work abroad because of increased taxes here.
I have to say that I do think these concerns are real. When you look at this from a logical point of view - why stay here if we become a high tax economy, when you can go to other high tax economies and enjoy far better services for those taxes?
Look at what you get in Denmark, Sweden, France, Germany etc for what you pay. You get far superior roads, superior public transport, superior health etc. What do you get here for your higher taxes?
have to say that a high tax Ireland would be rather poor value for money. Unless you really loved the country, or were stuck here for some reason - you have to say there are better options out there, even with the global downturn.
Fair point,but most people are STUCK HERE.
Because they still have an income here from a job or social welfare payments
and
they have no guarantee of getting an income in sweden etc
If you do think you can get a similiar income abroad,please don`t think,it would be unpatriotic to move.In actual fact you could hardly do a more patriotic act,someone on the dole will slip into your job saving the government here this persons dole money or saving them your salary if you are a public worker and the gov applies the job embargo.
I
There are still many job vacancies that Irish people cannot fill because they don't have the skills or an education system which is good enough to train them. Even in my company, which is relatively low-tech, we cannot get skilled Irish people. What chance does Intel have?I do not share the concern of other posters in worrying about getting people to fill job vacancies. Highly qualified job applicants are desperate to find jobs and are adjusting their salary expectations downwards,and this recession is worldwide,so intel could recruit anywhere in the world.
Do you have or know of a plan from anyone backed by hard numbers that sum to around €25b?The budget deficit will be around €25b this year and probably more over the next few. Do you have or know of a plan from the socialist brethren backed by hard numbers that sum to around €25b?
There are still many job vacancies that Irish people cannot fill because they don't have the skills or an education system which is good enough to train them. Even in my company, which is relatively low-tech, we cannot get skilled Irish people. What chance does Intel have?
Do you have or know of a plan from anyone backed by hard numbers that sum to around €25b?
Let's hear it, then.YES but you don't want to listen to it.
You cut expenditure in each government department back to pre-bubble levels. If each minister can't get the job done, hire in someone who will. Pretty much every large company has done the same exercise at some period in their history.Let's hear it, then.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?