Marriage equality referendum - "rights" to kids etc.

Purple said:
The idea that there will be a competition between a straight couple and a gay couple is not realistic.
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How so? As you suggesting that straight couples will trump and gay couples such that gay couples will only be able to adopt where one is either a parent or a relative of the child?
 
Generally when it comes to votes like this regarding constitutional change on social matters, I check what the Catholic Church has to say on it and then I vote against their opinion.
 
michaelm said:
How so? As you suggesting that straight couples will trump and gay couples such that gay couples will only be able to adopt where one is either a parent or a relative of the child?
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No, I'm saying that it doesn't arise. There aren't lots of kids in orphanages in Ireland, despite what American TV producers may think.
 
This is all an attempt to muddy the waters. That's why the Government are dealing with them separately. The referendum is about Marriage Equality, nothing else. As can be seen by some commentators here, the muddying is working, there's no reference to adoption in the Constitution why are people stating that there is?
 
What is the impact of a yes vote on pensions? And in particular DB spouses and children's schemes?

What is the impact of a yes vote on inheritance rights? And in particular land owner / farmers in rural Ireland?
 
ajapale said:
What is the impact of a yes vote on pensions? And in particular DB spouses and children's schemes?

What is the impact of a yes vote on inheritance rights? And in particular land owner / farmers in rural Ireland?
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Fairly sure the Civil Partnership legislation puts civil partners on a equal footing with spouses so I think no impact on the issues you mention.
 

1. I never said I was against the marriage of a homosexual couple.
2. I do not know how many adoptions there are in Ireland.
3. I do not know how many applicants there are for adopting babies.
4. I do know there is a surplus of applicants to the amount of babies available.
5. For various reasons I am not going to name any well-known homosexual not in favour of homosexual adopting babies.

I hope these answer the questions raised in an earlier post.
 
Purple said:
The idea that there will be a competition between a straight couple and a gay couple is not realistic.
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Purple said:
I'm saying that it doesn't arise. There aren't lots of kids in orphanages in Ireland, despite what American TV producers may think.
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Yes, so given that more people are looking to adopt than there are children to adopt how does that mean that competition between a straight couple and a gay couple is not realistic or will not arise?
 
Most adoptions in Ireland are inter-family or inter-country.
If a gay couple adopt and raise the child of a family member only one of them can ever be recognised as that child's parent.
Say a woman has a child and then enters a long term and committed relationship with another woman. They both raise that child as their own and the child only knows the two women as its parents. The state gives no recognition to the non genetic parent. If the biological parent dies and the biological grandparents don't approve of the remaining parent they can take the child away from them and stop them from having any contact. That is wrong in so many ways and needs to be addressed.

Equality is equality. The reservations I have about how the child of a same sex couple will be treated by some in society are far outweighed by the reservations I have about this state treating some of its citizens as second class or somehow lesser because of their sexual orientation.
 
Everyone is for equality. But nothing in you post bolsters your assertion that competition is not a realistic prospect.
 
michaelm said:
Everyone is for equality. But nothing in you post bolsters your assertion that competition is not a realistic prospect.
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It's certainly possible but not likely. Laws shouldn't be make on the basis of hard cases.
 
michaelm said:
Everyone is for equality. But nothing in you post bolsters your assertion that competition is not a realistic prospect.
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But so what if competition is a realistic prospect?, how does that have any bearing on the right to marry or, if the issues must be linked, to right to adopt? Sure there is already intense over-demand, the adoption service has to deal with that, ok there may be more seeking to adopt, but I'm sure the poor dears can cope.
 
Betsy Og said:
But so what if competition is a realistic prospect?, how does that have any bearing on the right to marry or, if the issues must be linked, to right to adopt?
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There is no right to adopt. The amendment will mean that the state or it's agencies cannot differentiate between same-sex and straight married couples. The knock on effect of this is that the adoption agency will not be able to favour placing a child in a mother/father situation. I have zero interest in anyone’s sexual orientation. My view is that we already have equality in that the gendered institution of marriage and civil partnerships are equivalent. The referendum is long odds on to pass (1/12) in any event.
 
michaelm said:
The knock on effect of this is that the adoption agency will not be able to favour placing a child in a mother/father situation.
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That's a very misleading take on it. Maybe the adoption agent won't be able to favour placing the child in a mother/father situation on basis of the gender of the parents, but there are plenty of other reasons why the adoption agency might deem the mother/father option to be the favoured place for a child. As Betsy Og said, when it comes to adoption decisions I'm sure the adoption agency are best placed to make this decision and nothing in this marriage referendum would impact on their ability to make this decision as far as I'm concerned.
 
You say my statement is very misleading but then seem to agree with it. I have no doubt that the adoption agency people know what they are doing but we will be trying one hand behind their back in certain cases . . they will be concerned to avoid any claims of discrimination.
 
If they act in the best interest of the child then there is no discrimination.
 
Purple said:
If they act in the best interest of the child then there is no discrimination.
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And no inequality. I hope that they can continue to act in the best interest of each child unencumbered by the passing of this referendum, despite my concerns that the provision isn't as benign as is being suggested and that it will have unintended(?) consequences.
 
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flowerman said:
Some of my wifes long term male and female friends are gay.I became friends with them and they are some of the most sincere,honest and nicest people on this planet.
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And some of them are right erm... Gombeens. But equality allows you to recognise the positive and negative features of an individual - just not tarnish them all based on a group's perception.
 
I listened to two politicians (both are Gay) talking about the Gay Marriage referendum on the radio recently. Both agreed that if the referendum was held in this month (January) the right to Gay Marriage would be defeated. Can anybody say why it will not be defeated come May? Or is the whole matter a foregone conclusion?
 
Leper said:
Can anybody say why it will not be defeated come May? Or is the whole matter a foregone conclusion?
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I suspect that the politicians don't actually believe what they are saying but want to avoid complacency on the Yes side so that the Yes campaigners and ultimately Yes voters turn out. I suspect that a a higher percentage of No voters will vote and that they are less likely to voice their opinion for fear of being wrongly labelled as homophobic.
 
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