Marriage equality referendum - "rights" to kids etc.

A big congrats to all the gay and lesbian people this will have such a positive effect on. Especially congrats to Sol28. A great day for our little country it must be said!

Firefly.
 
Thanks to Everyone for their congratulations. But it is not me that should be congratulated. I was naturally going to stand for my equality. What made this possible was every one of you who went out and voted Yes, especially to those of you who started conversations with people, who took an old taboo subject and made it a matter of fact discourse.

If you did not witness any of the celebrations that were occurring across the country then you missed out on a euphoria that many will never see again. (I've heard many people - straight and gay describe it as very similar to Italia 90).

The past couple of months have been very difficult for a lot of us. Our lives were being picked apart, we were challenged on irrelevant facts. I have never outed myself to so many people - including my own father - 2 weeks ago. There have been times when I wanted to shout a few obscenities on this thread - but that would do no one any favours - so I counted to 10....

However - the past few months have also been incredibly positive too - as we were supported from all corners of the country. To see such a turnout, to read the #HomeToVote stream. To get such a strong Yes has been amazing.

Ireland has gone from a forced decriminalisation in 1993 through a muted tolerance, via acceptance to full on support for a minority. This referendum was never just about marriage - it was about being seen and supported by the population of Ireland as normal, standard, regular citizens.

This Picture (on https://www.facebook.com/PositivelyIrish) is of the parents of a friend of mine. Snapped on the streets of Dublin without their awareness. I think it sums up the whole process for me. An elderly straight couple hand in hand, showing open support for the LGBT population.



(Sorry for the delay in responding - but I was out celebrating all weekend - I have no voice left today!)
 
Right Guys! The celebrations are nearly complete. But, some of the hangovers continue. The churches have got their bashing (Remember it was not just the Catholic church that could not come to terms with homosexuality). Since Saturday circa 2.00pm we (the Irish people) are now all equal. No doubt, the low earning poverty stricken homosexuals in negative equity feel as equal as the rich homosexuals languishing in silk. The poor among the hetrosexual community likewise feel equal, I'm sure!

Many retired homosexuals who suffered loss of promotion prospects in their jobs because of their homosexuality probably feel equal too. Homophobia was always active in any place I worked, for example. And, of course, homophobic activity ceased last Saturday also . . . or did it?

Religious institutions have had to come to grips of terrible wrongdoings (understatement) and pay compensation etc for what happened in the recent and distant past. During the Referendum Campaign I listened to tens of stories of homophobic activity suffered in jobs over the years. Would I be right in thinking that many of the aggrieved will rightly be seeking compensation for the dreadful ways in which they were treated?
 
Leper said:
During the Referendum Campaign I listened to tens of stories of homophobic activity suffered in jobs over the years. Would I be right in thinking that many of the aggrieved will rightly be seeking compensation for the dreadful ways in which they were treated?
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Personally I dont see a flurry of lawsuits now that the referendum has passed. Mainly because laws have been in place to prevent discrimination based on sexual orientation (and 6 other facets) for years. To be bullied, abused in a formal environment (eg work) has been illegal for years - and labour relations have already taken place.

I think, for us, the only effect is that same sex couples can marry. Thats it.

For other countries the effect is a galvanization of the fight for equality, the States, Germany, Australia and Italy have all been discussing rights due to our vote. Northern Ireland is the only section of Western Europe where SSM is not in place.
 
There was an awful lot of "taking the power back" comment on Saturday- I thought this was a bit 'off' from the point of view that a) Catholic Church influence is long since much diminished and it is more of a landmark for the gay community (and Ireland's image in general) than our relationship with the church & b) the victory is won, is there really a need to despatch the POW's??, a bit of graciousness wouldnt go astray - especially when you have the Archbishop (I think) talking about the church needing a reality check - they certainly took that message if it was the message people were giving (I'm not convinced), dont think we need to "sew it into them". [& I know I was critical of the church 3 or 4 posts ago]. Also I think there's a rude awakening for those who think this is the road paved for abortion referendum - I think the "cothrom na feinne" (fair play) that motivated most people to vote Yes will motivate most people to vote No to abortion. I know I was a Yes, but couldnt see myself as other than a No on the abortion debate. Obviously no link between the issues, other than some people losing the run of themselves.
 
Betsy Og said:
There was an awful lot of "taking the power back" comment on Saturday- I thought this was a bit 'off' from the point of view that a) Catholic Church influence is long since much diminished and it is more of a landmark for the gay community (and Ireland's image in general) than our relationship with the church & b) the victory is won, is there really a need to despatch the POW's??, a bit of graciousness wouldnt go astray - especially when you have the Archbishop (I think) talking about the church needing a reality check - they certainly took that message if it was the message people were giving (I'm not convinced), dont think we need to "sew it into them". [& I know I was critical of the church 3 or 4 posts ago]. Also I think there's a rude awakening for those who think this is the road paved for abortion referendum - I think the "cothrom na feinne" (fair play) that motivated most people to vote Yes will motivate most people to vote No to abortion. I know I was a Yes, but couldnt see myself as other than a No on the abortion debate. Obviously no link between the issues, other than some people losing the run of themselves.
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I also agree. The essential difference is as follows. Saturday's vote is a game changer for LGBT folk but not really a game changer for society as a whole. Yes it may encourage more gays to "come out". But it is not going cause a rush of "straights" to become gays. Possibly at some future date we will read stats like 4% of marriages were same sex. So what? Abortion is different. Free access to abortion could lead to stats like "over 50% of conceptions are aborted" and surely that would be bad.

BTW I notice that even gays refer to their opposite numbers as "straights". Seems strange coz the opposite of straight (e.g. "bent") is presumably verboten when referring to gays.
 
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Sol28 said:
The Vatican has always loved a bit of drama - one of the campest institutions out there. And as for the prior popes Ruby Slippers... Sorry Red Slippers :rolleyes:
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The whole red shoes and satin dresses thing always seemed to be a bit camp to me but I'm not religious so they (religions) are all just different brands of crazy to me.
 
Betsy Og said:
There was an awful lot of "taking the power back" comment on Saturday- I thought this was a bit 'off' from the point of view that a) Catholic Church influence is long since much diminished and it is more of a landmark for the gay community (and Ireland's image in general) than our relationship with the church & b) the victory is won, is there really a need to despatch the POW's??, a bit of graciousness wouldnt go astray
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The Catholic Church has little influence in general and did little to oppose the referendum save for releasing a few statements. This was a David and Goliath referendum where the Goliath Yes campaign won the day. Given that there were two No votes for every three Yes votes and that the total number of No votes @ 734,300 was not inconsiderable, one might have though that graciousness might have been warranted. Time will tell whether the concerns of No voters were misplaced.
 
I keep hearing references to the "old" vote, as if this is expected to be deeply traditional. What does "old" mean? I spent my teens in catholic Belfast in the 60s, (remember flower power, the permissive society and all that). I guess that makes me an old vote. But believe me, I and my peers were adamantly rejecting the catholic ethos, a fact that can be seen today in the likes of Gerry Adams. So the dreadful revelations against catholic clergy were for me and my generation not a matter of shock and 'orror, more a case of "I told you so". I suppose folk in their 80s were indeed committed to the traditional view.
 
I don't know. Who can determine an old or a young vote?

If there was a strong representative young vote, why did the presidential age vote fail?

Just wondering.

Marion
 
Marion said:
I don't know. Who can determine an old or a young vote?

If there was a strong representative young vote, why did the presidential age vote fail?

Just wondering.

Marion
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I voted Yes and Yes. Having spoken with many others of various ages I reckon that if the age of those being chosen as president was lowered to 30, it would have been carried. I think many people had reservations of a 21 year old "child" president.

I know it would have been nearly impossible to have a 21 year old elected president but it was that word "nearly" made the difference. Earlier on this thread somebody mooted that the people wanted to say "No" to something as some kind of protest and the age for the presidency was that chance.
 
Just a thought. Through Eurovision (especially the semi finals) the Gay Flags were prolific especially when the Russian entry was being sung. Strangely, in the final during the Russian performance there was not a Gay Flag to be seen. So perhaps the semi finals have become Gay events?

But, in the spirit of Equality, I think it is time for the introduction of a Hetrosexual Flag . . . Any ideas on design? Let me suggest a cured Leper giving thanks and a green background.
 
Interesting letter in today's Indo!

Think of the children

As we read the shocking Hiqa report on its grave concerns about the welfare of the 1,600 children living in direct provision in this state, one wonders where is the outrage from the Iona Institute and all those who spent the marriage referendum campaign telling us how much they care about children.

The children living in direct provision are nine times more likely to be the subject of a referral relating to child welfare or safety issues than children in the wider community. This is so wrong and cannot be allowed to continue.

Zoe Lawlor

South Circular Road, Limerick

Irish Independent
 
Direct provision and the treatment of children in it and in care in general is a blight on all of us. How many of us have ever raised the issue when politicians call to the door. Out of sight, out of mind. There will be tribunals galore in 20 years and our kids and grandkids will think we were all gutless selfish cowards for allowing this to happen. They will be right.
 
Firefly said:
The children living in direct provision are nine times more likely to be the subject of a referral relating to child welfare or safety issues than children in the wider community. This is so wrong and cannot be allowed to continue.
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Absolutely agree that this is a scandal - I would say that this topic should be spawned out into a new thread of its own. More people might engage with it that way.
 
Firefly said:
one wonders where is the outrage from the Iona Institute and all those who spent the marriage referendum campaign telling us how much they care about children.



Irish Independent
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Maybe if the millions of dollars that came came from the States were spent on services.
 
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