Well TheBigShort why are you avoiding this?
Margaret Cash: "I don't expect anything from the government"
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
- Start date
- Status
Well TheBigShort why are you avoiding this?
You said before that you grew up in a council house. You were happy for the taxpayer to pay for refurbishing that house when you lived there.
while you're at it TBS could you answer this.
So inreality she's probably getting over €60,000 a year from her fellow citizens (the State and the government only spend our money).
Seems to be the case Purple, I was only interested in the figures. And comparing them to someone who was working and how much they'd need to get 60K into their hand, without any choice as to location of the family home as many commuters can attest to.
For some reason TBS is refusing to put an actual figure to the entitlements. And is trying not to include certain things in some kind of financial reasoning that I don't understand.
5 grand a month into the hand without lifting a finger. Nice "work" if you can get it. Surname is spot on too.
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
Im not sure. My only assertion in this topic was that the newspaper graphic at the start of the OP was false and misleading. I did that by pointing out some anomalies in the detail. An obvious one is the fuel allowance.
She didn't say that. She said "I don't expect anything from this government". She said it on Claire Byrne Live and she said it in the context of ever finding anywhere permanent to live - not in the context that she received nothing from the government, as the article implies.
It is patently obvious that she receives states supports, but she is not the only one. Landlords who jack up rents knowing that the State will pay for it and use that money to increase the value on their own properties are also receiving supports from the government. Dont they?
We all receive supports from the State.
€60,000 a year and she lives in a b&b? Doesn't make sense to me. Id estimate transfers directly to herself, raising 7 kids by herself, to be about €34,000.
We could save on the HAP payment to the b&b but then where will she live?
You are making no sense. I do not know what the figure is on entitlements that she receives. Anymore than the figure on entitlements that you receive. I merely commenting on inaccuracies in the OP.
Its pretty galling of you to be critical of Cash when you openly admit to basically exploiting the State by increasing rents for no other reason than knowing the State will pay for it and to preserve the value of your own investments.
The notion that Cash can be criticised for receiving €1350 a month in HAP payments, when those payments go to the landlord is simply laughable.
You didn't read the bit then where the landlord increases the rent knowing the State will pay for it?
If I owned a supermarket for example, what turnover would I need to have in order to pay myself this type of money? I'll have a stab at answering that and say €1,000,000.00. Yes, that reads a million and i've to employ a hell of a lot of people, pay rent, insurance, work my butt off and god knows what else to be in a position like this woman and she's got the cheek to say the goverment gives her nothing. It's also a tad insulting to ordinary hard working people to listen to and watch presenters on our national television and radio giving these people high profiles to appear on programmes and create sympathy and outright abhorrence that their plight is being ignored. The likes of Claire Byrne and her ilk never ask the questions we all want answered, they just use it as a popular exercise to put down politicians and everyone else who are at the coal face. It's red rotten and fair play to Brendan on here for highlighting the example in his opening post.
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
Do you own a supermarket? Because if not I suspect the rest of your post wont make much sense.
No you dont. Margaret Cash never owned a supermarket, with a turnover of €1m, employing lots of people, pay rent, insurance and work her butt off to get to the position she is in today.
She was brought up in the travelling community, living in a caravan for most of her life, she has a poor education record, now has seven children with a father in prison, or apparently not interested in his kids.
She is homeless and now lives in a b&b.
I get the impression you are jealous?
She never said that. Dont believe everything you read in the papers (or Twitter).
Stop misquoting me. I said I was considering increasing the rents for the tenants in HAP. Why. I said because if I don't, because the government put a rent cap on, my property would be worth less than a comparable property achieving market rent. It's the government that put in the rent pressure zone and is devaluing my property. It's in my financial interest to increase the rents, not because I wanted to, but because it will preserve the property value. And don't say I've actually done so, when I haven't even figured out how to go about increasing the rent. And I could don't without the hassle of it actually. I've done fine for more than 2 decades never increasing rents. I have increased one rent, a rental from 2011 in 2017. And that's because it's also in a rent pressure zone, but that one is not HAB and now if I don't increase the rent, the property will be worth less than market value, which is why I spoke to the tenant about it recently. And I don't want to do any of this.
Do not misquote me on critising Cash. I have not done so at all. I merely wish to know how much the government is paying her. She is the one complaining about not being given a house in Tallaght. In addition you've tried to claim that the rent that the government pays her has zero to do with her. It's equivelent to you saying you don't pay your mortgage, the company you work for does. Though maybe you don't have a mortgage because another poster said you have a council house.
So now you refuse to count all state monies she is receiving. Like her rent money doesn't cost anybody anything. Ridiculous. By that measure HAB costs nothing to the taxpayer. And Cash, not a tax payer, is also paying nothing. Who is paying Cash's rent TBS?
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
I didn't. Here it is again, your words;
Bronte
"Which reminds me I should put up the rents to keep the property value up to market value. And the tenant's won't care as the state will pay. I'm convinced that HAP has driven up rents. Because I have never got so much rent"
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
Im not refusing anything. Merely pointing out the anomalies in the article and the misleading detail.
If you can accept that the detail is inaccurate and misleading then perhaps we can discuss what it is that she likely receives.
If you cannot accept the inaccuracies and still want to persist with the headline then there is not point in carrying on.
Not nice when what you actually said, and what you actually meant to say, is taken out of context and used as a stick to beat you with, is it?
The BS, why are you comparing a service, offered on the open market, supplied by Bronte and purchased on behalf of Mrs. Cash to the hand-out that she receives to pay for that service?
If Bronte had no tenants who receive State handouts all of the units they own would still be rented out. There is absolutely no comparison between a person who does not work getting State support and someone else being paid by the State for supplying a service.
You are a State employee. Should your income be compared to income also received from the State by people on welfare? Personally I don't think so as you work for your income. Bronte is being paid for providing a service. Mrss. Cash is providing nothing and instead living off her fellow citicens.
If Bronte had no tenants who receive State handouts all of the units they own would still be rented out. There is absolutely no comparison between a person who does not work getting State support and someone else being paid by the State for supplying a service.
You are a State employee. Should your income be compared to income also received from the State by people on welfare? Personally I don't think so as you work for your income. Bronte is being paid for providing a service. Mrss. Cash is providing nothing and instead living off her fellow citicens.
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
Im not comparing the service with the welfare payment. Im comparing Brontes expectation that the State will pay any rent increases he imposes on his tenants with the perceived expectation that M Cash has with the government.
Bronte will claim (im sure) that I have taken his comments out of context?
M Cash's comments have been taken out of context.
The headline relates to a comment that M Cash made on Claire Byrne Live. It related to her belief that she has no expectation that this government will ever supply herself and her 7 children with a permanent home. Not that she no expectation of any support at all, when clearly she does receive supports.
So you are equating the provision of a service by Bronte with the receipt of welfare my Mrs. Cash. Bronte (I don't know if they are male of female) has an expectation that they can increase their rent in a manner which is legal and ethical. If the government wants to continue to purchase that service from Bronte then they will have to pay the going rate. If Bronte does not increase the rent then they are negatively impacting on the capital value of their asset.
Do you expect the State to continue to pay you for the services you provide, including any pay increases, be they increments or otherwise, which you are due while having a problem with Bronte doing the same? Bronte is providing a public good; they are housing people who otherwise might be homeless. Are you doing something which is as socially laudable? I know I'm not.
I have no expectation that the State will provide me with a permanent home either and I've a much lower take home income than she does.
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
Oh dear, read my post again. Im comparing Brontes expectation that the State will pay any rent increases he imposes on his tenants against the perception peddled here that MCash has no expectation for government supports at all - hence the OP and attached article.
Im guessing Bronte will argue that I have taken his comments out of context?
Have I taken his previous comments out of context?
Im arguing that MCash's comments have been taken out of context. That they relate only to her non-expectation that this government will not ever find her and her family secure permanent accommodation.
If you want to argue around the houses about the 'ethics' of all of this then open another thread.
This topic is bogus as it takes MCash's comments out of context and uses them as a stick to beat her down.
Btw, I provide about 5hrs of my time coaching mine and other peoples kids U11 &12 soccer free of charge. I would consider that somewhat socially laudable - try it sometime, makes you feel good.
To equate charging market rents on people who cannot afford it, that they need State assistance to meet payments to keep a roof over their heads, as socially laudable is a joke.
Last edited:
Yep, just read it again. It's perfectly clear; you are equating the provision of a service by Bronte with the receipt of welfare my Mrs. Cash.
Do they? How do you know?
Hang on a sec, I have to get up on my high-horse so I can eyeball you... that's better... now, I'm not going to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" discussion with you about who does what to serve the community and how much of what we do is actually because we enjoy it.
Just like a nurse or doctor or teacher or social worker who gets paid their salary, despite their employer not having enough money to house homeless people? Those people could choose to work elsewhere and get the same salary or better. Bronte could rent out their property to private tenants only and get paid more. What's the difference?
I'm a tenant. I pay rent. My landlord charges me below the market rate because they know I can't afford to pay more and because I'm an excellent tenant. My landlord is providing a social good.
TheBigShort
Registered User
- Messages
- 2,789
- Status