Believe it or not, many of us men in healthy relationships occasionally talk to our wives about such matters.
If you want to restrict input to a thread to mothers only, perhaps do so somewhere else that can validate your credentials as a mother.
Low labour participation by mothers
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If you want to restrict input to a thread to mothers only, perhaps do so somewhere else that can validate your credentials as a mother.
Where did I propose a restriction?
I asked if the majority of respondents on this thread were men & when asked why, pointed to the title of the thread.
So, would it be fair to say the majority respondents (so far) are men & therefore speaking from a man's experience of parenting & work?
I asked if the majority of respondents on this thread were men & when asked why, pointed to the title of the thread.
So, would it be fair to say the majority respondents (so far) are men & therefore speaking from a man's experience of parenting & work?
Does it come back to the fact that we have so many single sex schools in the country. There is no difference between male and female but if we as a country persist in embedding these as a difference from the age of 4 to 18 then do we only have ourselves to blame.
It is well known that men are more inclined to be promoted and higher paid when they have children whereas women are penalised for both promotion and pay increases compared to their childless counterparts. So unconscious bias in hiring is also at play.
In my company when my kids were growing up there was no allowance made for responsibilities/duties at home, it was very frowned upon if you mentioned a difficulty travelling or attending an off site meeting due to the need to be home by a certain time or unable to commute until the other spouse got home. In one instance I needed to go to a meeting in the UK but very patronisingly told they would send “John” instead of me as I had a young baby at home. I pointed out that John’s baby was two months younger than mine! It was a clear case of giving John the opportunity so he could leap forward over me, and I would be required to mind the child at home but John would have the supportive wife to do it for him. I still see it very difficult for women to overcome these attitudes in the work nowadays. But I do see more of women saying, let’s move the meeting to this time and I will attend, and also saying no, something will not work as they have commitments to be elsewhere.
There are numerous examples I could give down through the years but I still choose to work. However I did see my kids miss out on after school activities because we could see no way of getting the kids from A to B when we were both at work.
It is well known that men are more inclined to be promoted and higher paid when they have children whereas women are penalised for both promotion and pay increases compared to their childless counterparts. So unconscious bias in hiring is also at play.
In my company when my kids were growing up there was no allowance made for responsibilities/duties at home, it was very frowned upon if you mentioned a difficulty travelling or attending an off site meeting due to the need to be home by a certain time or unable to commute until the other spouse got home. In one instance I needed to go to a meeting in the UK but very patronisingly told they would send “John” instead of me as I had a young baby at home. I pointed out that John’s baby was two months younger than mine! It was a clear case of giving John the opportunity so he could leap forward over me, and I would be required to mind the child at home but John would have the supportive wife to do it for him. I still see it very difficult for women to overcome these attitudes in the work nowadays. But I do see more of women saying, let’s move the meeting to this time and I will attend, and also saying no, something will not work as they have commitments to be elsewhere.
There are numerous examples I could give down through the years but I still choose to work. However I did see my kids miss out on after school activities because we could see no way of getting the kids from A to B when we were both at work.
It doesn't stop me having an opinion on a badly constructed premise.Indeed. Doesn't stop you opining though!
That's different to knowing what women want in order to increase their participation rate in the workforce. You said that everyone knows that. Please enlighten me as I was left out of that disclosure.
Dr Strangelove
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Of course not!
She earns about 25% less than me now.
But this was something that worked best for us as a household and no regrets.
Got that one too.
Yes.
Absolutely not. Many of us have wives or partners whom we talk with and are completely competent and able to share their perspective. Other's, like me, are single parents who have to do both the maternal and paternal role as well as working full time (full time being 39 hours a week or more).
No, unless you think all the men commenting have zero interest or knowledge in the experiences of their wives or other women in their lives
When talking about the experience of women in the workplace, I would comment based on what my wife or other family and friends tell me. It's clear their experience is very different to my own.
It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that there is no difference between male and female.
Men and women who prioritise work over their children are more likely to get paid and promoted more than man and women who prioritise their children over their work. That's absolutely the way it should be.
And rightly so. That applies equally to both men and women.
That was sexist. Did you make it clear that you were as flexible and available to travel as John was?
If they are not available during the standard working day then that will probably have a negative impact on their career and rightly so if their unavailability has a negative impact on their employers overall productivity.
Yes, those are the sacrifices working parents make. It's a balance but we can't expect it both ways. If I have to leave work because I get a call from my daughters school that has a negative impact on my employer and should be reflected in what I get paid. A colleague who doesn't have children and doesn't have the privilege of dropping their child to school or spending time with them during the day should absolutely expect to get paid more than me and get promoted before me. It would be grossly unfair if it was otherwise.
Reporting on someone else's experience is not the same as speaking from your own.
Bringing up children is tough. Something has to give.
A. Govt & society shouldn't make it harder
B. It seems to be the same people 'giving'
So what should government and society stop doing that’s making things harder?
Assuming you mean mothers, there’s evidence on this thread alone to suggest that in the absence of workable alternatives, child rearing becomes the de facto responsibility of mothers. I’m not suggesting this is how it should be but it tends to be the solution at which many couples arrive.
It's a complicated discussion!
But I still tell the story of how the regional manager arrived to the branch one day to discuss the results of the latest Mystery Shopper report, looked for me as obviously it had been me who was involved, bear in mind I was on holidays that week but he was uninclined to believe me! Why was it me? Because the mystery shopper had said the mortgage advisor was 10 mins late for appointment, apologised and said they had to collect a child from school. As the other mortgage advisor was male it clearly couldn't be him but of course it actually was!
But I still tell the story of how the regional manager arrived to the branch one day to discuss the results of the latest Mystery Shopper report, looked for me as obviously it had been me who was involved, bear in mind I was on holidays that week but he was uninclined to believe me! Why was it me? Because the mystery shopper had said the mortgage advisor was 10 mins late for appointment, apologised and said they had to collect a child from school. As the other mortgage advisor was male it clearly couldn't be him but of course it actually was!
Very interesting to see the differences in content, focus, and tone of replies from women on the thread versus some of the men.
That's correct. I never suggested otherwise.
I don't know the gender of most of the posters.
That's disgraceful and blatantly sexist.
It's also the case that mothers are more likely to want to spend more time parenting and less time working.
Care to expand?