KBC KBC basing cohorts on Application date rather than Draw-down dates

Raise a formal complaint in so they have to answer them. The key is to understand what they will give you easily and everything else needs to be a formal complaint, ending with the FSO if required
Can I contact the FSO if I haven't exhausted the banks complaints system. I have emailed the person whose dealing with my complaint saying they have missed the response date but they will probably email me in the morning saying how busy they are and shift my complaint another 4 weeks down the road.
 
Jazzer, they were late responding to my complaint too - about 5/6 days, if I recall correctly and then the letter arrived.
 
Can I contact the FSO if I haven't exhausted the banks complaints system.
My understanding is no - you need a final letter from them closing out the complaint on their side

I have emailed the person whose dealing with my complaint saying they have missed the response date but they will probably email me in the morning saying how busy they are and shift my complaint another 4 weeks down the road.
Not uncommon, but if you are not willing to wait this extra time, simply state this and ask for the final letter asap. Alternatively offer them 2-3 weeks and clearly state you want either the terms of your complaint to be upheld or a final response letter for this date. But do make sure that you have offered them a reasonable change to respond, as putting a gun to anyone's head may backfire in the future.
I understand the dragging out of this is frustrating, but I am not sure what else can be done. Patience needed here sadly I think, and hard and all as it is......
 
Jazzer, they were late responding to my complaint too - about 5/6 days, if I recall correctly and then the letter arrived.
There tends to be delays in their posting process as they use an international printing company. This was mentioned in another thread somewhere on here
 
This is classic kbc tactics. They are deliberately trying to kick the can as far down the road as possible for the cohorts that they have have deemed unimpacted. I have engaged with them since January and only yesterday did I get confirmation that they have noted my complaint . I will get a letter out confirming this in 5 working days. In turn it will most likely take them 2 months to refute my claim which is will no doubt be the case. That's 3 months lost before I can log with the FSO. Perhaps That's what pauraic Kissane means by 'tracker fatigue '.. hoping people will just go away and give up..
On Ciara Kelly last Friday week Pauraic gave hope to these cases reacting to a query which came in from a listener.
 
Got an email from kbc this morning saying they have sent out a final response by post yesterday.so will let you know when the post arrives.
 
This is classic kbc tactics. They are deliberately trying to kick the can as far down the road as possible for the cohorts that they have have deemed unimpacted. I have engaged with them since January and only yesterday did I get confirmation that they have noted my complaint . I will get a letter out confirming this in 5 working days. In turn it will most likely take them 2 months to refute my claim which is will no doubt be the case. That's 3 months lost before I can log with the FSO. Perhaps That's what pauraic Kissane means by 'tracker fatigue '.. hoping people will just go away and give up..
On Ciara Kelly last Friday week Pauraic gave hope to these cases reacting to a query which came in from a listener.

Do you remember what the query was?
 
Got my response this morning from KBC saying they believe I was never entitled to a tracker that all I was entitled to after my fixed period was a standard variable rate. Also i never contacted them in 2010 to say why I wasn't reverted over to a tracker, Which is untrue because I did. I really wasn't expecting anything else so on to the Ombudsman and I have photocopied the documents and sent them on to P.kissane.
 
Incredible. Thats exactly the same letter as I received . They mentioned a date & time where I called in 2010, and said I never asked for a tracker( as If they were going to give me one anyway!)
That phonecall was 3 weeks after my wife called to query the availability of a tracker.
I called subsquently having accepted there was no chance of a tracker to see the best deal on a fixed.
They fit things into their version of events which suit their own arguement, leaving out things that may not.

Just curious on peoples views here, if one of this cohort are sucessful with an appeal to the FSO, does that mean everyone in the cohort will be returned? Or will there be no more blanket impacted groups, and each case dealt with individually ?
 
@Jazzer1 @mccoypat94 and another one here. I also received a letter today stating I had no entitlement to a tracker, this despite my application requesting one. My letter of offer was issued 10 days before the flyer for a fixed rate, they apparently would not grant me a tracker as nets were too high. At the time there was only 0.3% difference between the tracker rate and fixed rate. A difference of about €25 per month. 10 days later all customers are going on to trackers with no caveats!! Their decision not to award me a tracker has cost me dearly and resulted in me doubling the term of my mortgage. They have no intention of reviewing any case outside the given dates, despite their comments to the finance committee. They told me quite clearly to go take my case to the FSO. They seem pretty confident on their stance
 
@mccoypat94 my understanding on FSO rulings is that they are personal and relate to your case only. I believe they allow ‘linking’ of associated cases where known but each case is processed on its own merits. If the FSO adjudicate favourably in one case it does not apply to all similar circumstances
The Central Bank May review some of the adjudications and put pressure on the banks to apply a fairness ruling to all similarly impacted customers, but I imagine this is rare enough. The bank would argue the terms of the adjudication would be personal.

So as per my understanding it’s each person for themselves once it comes to the FSO. Others may correct me if I am wrong here !!!
 
@Daisy duke sorry to hear you have not been successful. I personally think you will struggle on this one given the date of the letter of offer. I always felt if the application was made before the date but the letter of offer came after it, there was a reasonable case to be argued. One could argue these are the people KBC said they would consider in their broad statement to the Oireachtas committee.

I think they will say the cut off is the cut off - similar to those who lost out on trackers when they were removed from the market.

Regarding not being offered one due to the finances - not sure what you can argue here, as you still accepted the mortgage they offered you.

I understand the financial impacts of this has been massive (with hindsight) and the flyer adds additional frustration to this. I think KBC will hold their line unconditionally in your case. That said you have nothing to lose going to the FSO only time - and of course the possibility of future disappointment.

I am genuinely disappointed for all those who lost out here. It’s never easy when ‘fate’ deals you such a poor hand. Two weeks later and it could have been a very different story - purely by accident - and that’s the hard part !
 
think they will say the cut off is the cut off - similar to those who lost out on trackers when they were removed from the market.
In my complaint I ask for the correspondent they send to the brokers ,they replied with they issued it to the brokers at that time and they are not issuing it on a case to case bases. They also said i was outside the flyer date by 6 days and my Broker hadn't stated clearly thatbibwas to roll on to a tracker as it wasn't ticked on the application form. Then they went on to say that I was only entitled to a standard rate after my fixed rate expired.when in fact the words STANDARD Variable rate is never mention once on my loan offer letter. Leaving my emotion out of it, Its a very poor response on their behalf.
 
They told me quite clearly to go take my case to the FSO. They seem pretty confident on their stance
They are always going to tell you that Daisy duke, It looks good on their half. You have nothing to lose going to the FSO.
 
They are always going to tell you that Daisy duke, It looks good on their half.
At the end of every final letter for a complaint, they are legally obligated to tell you what the next steps are if you are not satisfied with their response. In most cases, this is to go to the FSO. Its not really about looking good - its what they have to do.

You have nothing to lose going to the FSO
Except time, energy and the risk of further disappointment. I think you need to take a week, seriously decide if you wish to progress this further and on what grounds. Do you genuinely feel you have a case or is it simply a "its not fair" scenario. I am not trying to put you off going to the FSO, but I do think you need to be realistic about your chances. But you have nothing to lose financially by going to the FSO
 
Do you genuinely feel you have a case or is it simply a "its not fair" scenario. I am not trying to put you off going to the FSO, but I do think you need to be realistic about your chances. But you have nothing
Well in my case gnf I feel they still haven't my answered some of my questions clearly enough and not sending me a copy of the correspondence they send out to Brokers is enough for me to escalate it to the Ombudsman.
 
In my complaint I ask for the correspondent they send to the brokers ,they replied with they issued it to the brokers at that time and they are not issuing it on a case to case bases. They also said i was outside the flyer date by 6 days and my Broker hadn't stated clearly that I was to roll on to a tracker as it wasn't ticked on the application form. Then they went on to say that I was only entitled to a standard rate after my fixed rate expired.when in fact the words STANDARD Variable rate is never mention once on my loan offer letter. Leaving my emotion out of it, Its a very poor response on their behalf.

Firstly, I have no doubt it was a poor response on their behalf - I have seen enough of responses from them over the years to form that opinion. However, you need to look through the detail of it and determine where your case rests ....

1. They are not issuing the "broker correspondence to individual customers" - ok, I have no idea why they would not do this given they were explicit about dates. I think this needs to be addressed via a clear question coming from an Oireachtas finance committee member requesting that this communication be issued for the 'end date' to be accepted by the Finance Committee. I suggest you write to each member of the committee, and ask this simple question off them. It also might be useful to get onto @Brendan Burgess as he does personally know a number of them and may be able to get this raised. This should be done in advance of the next time KBC are in front of the committee, so there is no reason why they cannot answer it on the day
NOTE - if this is the primary basis of your complaint/case, and the communication is released showing their dates to be correct, your case is immediately dead in the water. I think you are better off trying to get access to this in advance of your FSO case so you can adjust your case according to the response

2. Have you a copy of your application form? Does it show any mention of a tracker there by your broker? What correspondence has your broker been able to provide you to state they asked for a tracker on expiry of the fixed term? I am guessing your broker is saying it was discussed verbally, but nothing in writing [I cannot remember if you have stated this in previous posts as there have been a fair few at this stage]. You need to think of this as "why KBC should be putting you on a tracker", rather than the discussions you had with the broker that they may not be aware of. If everything is verbal, it will be difficult to prove

3. I have said a number of times on a number of different threads that people need to let go the discussion on standard variable rate. It is irrelevant whether it appears on the mortgage contract or not. There are two types of rates open for discussion here - variable rate and tracker rate. If you cannot prove you were to return to a tracker rate, then the default is back to variable rate. Whether KBC call this SVR, LVR, MVR or Mickey Mouse Variable Rate - if its not a tracker rate, its their variable rate. While I personally don't agree with non-tracker variable rates at all, and believe they should be baselined on something - that's not the way that mortgages work in Ireland.
You need to show you were entitled to a tracker rate - otherwise they are right, you should have rolled onto a variable one.

If memory serves me right, all of these contracts state "prevailing variable rate" - so no mention of trackers and no offset from ECB.


>>They also said i was outside the flyer date by 6 days
Was this based on application date, loan offer date or some other date? Or did they say?
If it was application date, it is easily conceivable that your meeting with the broker was pre-flyer withdrawal and the application was made on that basis. However, KBC may decide to place the blame squarely on the broker in this case.
 
not sending me a copy of the correspondence they send out to Brokers is enough for me to escalate it to the Ombudsman
As suggested in the above post, I would try and get the Oireachtas committee to get access to this detail first and see how they get on. I imagine they would have a better chance of success initially
 
[QUOTE="gnf_ireland, post: 1561250, member: 2843"Do you genuinely feel you have a case or is it simply a "its not fair" scenario. I am not trying to put you off going to the FSO, but I do think you need to be realistic about your chances. But you have nothing to lose financially by going to the FSO[/QUOTE]
Yes I do feel I have a case and have to continue to fight it. I did not draw down until Dec 06 and only returned loan acceptance on the 07th Nov, coincidentally the day the flyer was issued. There argument is that The product was not available when I applied, which is not the case. Contractually I didn’t have an agreement with them until Dec 06, and that is the bit I feel is unfair where others have drawn down on the same T&C’s and have now had a tracker restored. Most probably never requested a tracker at any point
 
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