Judgment Mortgage

Hi Kev, yes it is great news!!!! Kev my problem is this creditor did not apply for the jm that was the old creditor (cash flow) and this creditor is saying this, they will instruct an agent to strike out the instalment order, they will mark the debt as settled in full and cease collection.

Now the part i'm confused about, they says, their client can reserve the right to sell on my debt but this is unlikely as they are marking it as "settled in full". What does this mean??

Also, they are not getting involved with the judgment mortgage as it was not them who obtained it, so i must persue getting this removed myself or leave it in place for a further 7yrs.

Also, it was not the courts that asked them to cease collection, i explained my financial circumstances forwarded all my financial information to them and i requested they discuss my circumstances with their client and thankfully, they decided to cease collection.

The new collection company is saying that the debt is 'settled in full', but their client company that got the judgement again you, is reserving the right to sell on your debt again to another new debt collection company again, which is not what you want.

When was the last payment made on the debt was it over 6 years ago? In the UK if the company does not enforce a judgement debt within 6 years then this would make it statute barred, but not sure if this is the same in Ireland.

I would write to company asking them for confirmed from their client it the company that sold the debt on to them that the debt has been ‘settled in full’ and for them to contact the land registry to have it taken off your deeds as well as any credit agency.

You should not make any more payment to them.

They can't sell the debt again.

You need to get the confirmation of settlement from company B in writing and then tell Cashflows receiver that you will make an application to the land registry to remove the JM. Give them a chance to sort it out themselves first.

What I understand of it is that company B was acting as collection agency for company A and it's company B that is saying that the debt is settled in full, but company A is reserving the right to sell on the debt, but company B is saying that is unlikely, are you sure you can you trust them. There is nothing to stop company A selling the debt on again or going to the court to enforce the debt as they still own it.

You will certainly need to get company B to confirm in writing that the debt they were collecting for company A has been settled in full. I am not sure if a letters from company B will suffice to get the judgment removed from the land registry.

If A has actually sold the debt, they have been paid for it, then they can't sell it multiple times.

Company B may have been collecting the debt on behalf of company A. Why would company B say that company A reserve the right to sell on the debt.

We would need to see the paperwork to be sure.

What I said earlier it is very unusual to sell debts in Ireland. The normal MO is to get a debt collector to collect on the behalf of the original creditor.

The debt may have been sold but the judgment has not gone away and that can only be removed (set-aside) by the court and the company that took it out on the OP.

I must say Loulou that this is an absolutely fascinating thread. And fair play to you for managing to get this far. It is amazing that you've sought legal advice and that most solicitors don't seem to know how to get rid of the JM. But you've demonstrated through tenacity, that a lone person, with the wonderful help of the courts clerk, how far a seemingly powerless individual can go. And also Kev and Time have been wonderful in their advice and insight into what seems like a very tricky area.

Thankyou Bronte for your very nice response and yes, Time and Kev have being a great help!!

Company B, there solicitor has confirm via email this is settled in full now and to attend court to consent to the strike out and to keep there email as confirmation.

Company A (cash flow) who sold my debt to company B, obtained the jm and now that the debt is settled in full, the jm needs to be removed.

I am going to contact the receiver as Time suggests but also, i have a legal aid apt due soon and i will seek there assistance . I have also contacted the land registry and they have outlined the process to cancel a jm but this involves company A who are in receivership so if the receiver does not assist me i will have to find a way around this,i do have to get this jm removed and i will.

I feel as the judgement was not officially assigned to Company B, which is why they agreed to 'settle in full', you should go for all costs (your time involved) against company B. Also you should try and get the money that you have paid them back, due to them not legally entitled to collect it. If the receiver is not able to help, it will then be the judge that will remove the judgement it for you, which involved court costs, you should make sure that company B bears those court costs and not you.

Also, an email is not official from the Company B to confirm that the debt is 'settle in full' you should ask for this confirmation on the company's official letter headed paper or from their solicitor and signed by the company's manager or their solicitor. Email Company B solicitor back asking for confirmation in writing on their letter headed paper or the company letter headed paper, also tell them to take out the words where it says that their client 'can reserve the right to sell on my debt'. They have already said that it is unlikely therefore there is no reason why they should put it in their correspondence.

If B legitimately bought the debt there would be paperwork from A to tell the OP this. A would have sold all rights to the debt making the JM invalid. If they are just doing the usual thing of collecting on their behalf there would be no paperwork.

Also company A could have sold on the debt to company B which they may have purchased without them knowing that there was a judgment attached to it.

Yes i do have all the paper (no dates) were company A did inform me that all rights etc. were sold on to company B. Company B are a uk company who bought the debt and they have an irish debt collection company collecting this.

It has come to my attention a few further developments which will make tuesday interesting, First, this debt collection agency in their email say, yes they will mark this debt settled and they will close THEIR file but the creditor reserves the right to sell on my debt. Clearly, the debt collection agency have decided to cease collection but the debt is still very much alive and maybe passed to another agency.

Now, i have sent a further email to this debt collection agency, asking them to confirm my request (i requested they discuss my circumstances with their client and i forwarded all financial and medical documents)...What was the creditors reply to my request? Did my creditor instruct you to mark my debt as settled? (or is the debt collection agency making decisions themselves ) and ina few years time, i could have another collection agency knocking on my door.

Now, on the court date, i'm going to ask two things, first i will ask the barrister, who is she/he representing? and who is instructing the strike out. If she is acting on behalf of the collection agency, i will demand another date as they are not the creditor.

Secondly, i will be asking the judge, has this creditor being entitled to collect this stalment order, they are not on the summons and the civil office have no record of them???

Also Time, can you tell me, if this creditor does strike out this stalment order, does this mean the debt is settled??

Company A otained a jm (2008) and sold debt to Company B(uk company), this uk company have a debt collection agency here collecting it. Company B, in taking over this debt did not follow procedures and is not on the summons. (and should be..)

There is something very suspicious about it all and i'm going to make sure that the creditor (company B) are aware of my circumstances as i don't think the collection agency informed them, i think they just realised that there was no point in them persuing me but keep the debt alive and maybe the creditor can revist it or sell it on again at some stage!!!!

Who is named on the summons for the 12th? A or B or their collection agency?

I think I know of UK company B and they are notorious for pulling the wool over people eyes to get money from them.

Just the email what I suggested and tell them that you will be looking for cost attached to having the judgment removed. Do not let them have anymore of your personal financial details or circumstances as company B solicitors have no right to this personal information.

Wait until you speak to your legal adviser next week. Remember the solicitor is acting for company B interest and not your interest. please be careful what you send them.

Also I am sure they will not want to go to court so the ball is in their court to let you have all the information such as your as an up to date of your accounts when they took it over from company B, you just keep asking them questions as they are in the wrong not you.

Firstly, i do not have a solicitor, i am representing myself. Also, when i was varying this order last feb i had to hand the barrister a copy of my means etc. so they already have my financial details.

Who is on the summons, when i went into the clerk to start proceedings Company A is on the original summons and their is no record of Company B, i explained Company A is noloner in business and they sold on my debt, so i put down Company B (the uk company) on the summons, but i have a feeling the collection agency will have their agent there and i'm not accepting that, as i have summoned the creditor not the collection agency, and surely a collection agency cannot strike out an instalment order !!

So just wondering, if the barrister says, she/he is acting on behalf of the name creditor (company B) and they are instructing a strike out does this mean the debt is settled?? If the barrister is acting on behalf of the collection agency, i will not consent for a strike out as i have requested the creditor to court.....

Also, the collection agency are notorious and they are very shifty, as she said, use my email as confirmation that this debt is now marked as settled but the creditor reserves the right to sell the debt on, in other words, they are nolonger collecting this debt and at no point did she inform me what was the creditors decision based on my request.

Depending on how this court date goes, afterwards, i will request all info under the data protection and i will contact the creditor directly myself and find out did they receive my new up to date financial circumstances and my request.

They are going to get a strike out as you have summonsed the wrong party. They will deny having a judgement against you.

You need to get A into court.

Time, i cannot get Company A into court they are nolonger in business. Company B bought this debt from company A, i have being paying company b for the past 2.5yrs this instalment order, i only discovered recently that company never informed the civil office that they (company b) are the new creditor on the summons.

Listen, i know i can get this debt struck out, as the collection agency have informed me there agent will be there on the day to strike it out,

my problem is: the debt collection agency acting on behalf of company b are closing their file but this debt will still exist.

Also, i have a feeling the collection agency is instructing their agent to strike this out and i'm not accepting this as i have requested their client (the creditor) to court.

And i will most definitely, inform the judge that this creditor is not on the summons, has this creditor being legally entitled to collect this instalment order even though this debt was assigned to them but they did not inform the civil office and there is no record of this creditor.