John Fitzgerald on Public Sector pay "Restoration"

Jon Stark said:
Where's the nastiness about your children?

Actually, what's nasty at all in my post?! You're very grouchy after the long weekend...

And yes, I do have one precious little flower so far :)
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This post doesn't change the condescending tone of your last one.

Jon Stark said:
And just for the record, I don't disagree with much of your posting on this thread, despite being a public sector worker myself, but you've strayed into hyperbole.
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Nope, that's the way I feel and that's what I think the best option is for my kids if they want a future they can build themselves. As we continue to lurch to the left things are only going to get worse.
 
Purple said:
Right, yep, crumbling. That's why the middle classes are getting poorer and their incomes are dropping?
Do you think the US Department of Labour's Bureau of Statistics is in cahoots with the government and these Stat's showing the real figures are just made up?
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I do think it is odd, that with such high employment rates that inflationary pressures are not emerging and that an increasing numbers of Americans are agitating for change. Trump, Sanders are reflective of a population preparing to challenge the established norms. Whether that transition eventually emerges, whether its peaceful or not, remains to be seen. But the US debt is out of control.
 
TheBigShort said:
I do think it is odd, that with such high employment rates that inflationary pressures are not emerging and that an increasing numbers of Americans are agitating for change. Trump, Sanders are reflective of a population preparing to challenge the established norms. Whether that transition eventually emerges, whether its peaceful or not, remains to be seen. But the US debt is out of control.
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So do you really think it's crumbling?
Do you accept the statistics from the Bureau of Statistics?
 
Purple said:
So do you really think it's crumbling?
Do you accept the statistics from the Bureau of Statistics?
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I didn't read them. I could source an equal amount of positive reports as I could negative reports. In the end I make a decision based on the information I gather. In the round, the US is effectively bankrupt, or close to it. If you define bankruptcy as being only able to service debt obligations through the creation of further debt, then it is bankrupt.
It has itself mired in global conflicts and from where im sitting it is agitating for more conflict.
Yes, I think the great country we know as the USA is under the cosh of a corporate structures and is doomed to collapse in on itself.
 
TheBigShort said:
I didn't read them. I could source an equal amount of positive reports as I could negative reports. In the end I make a decision based on the information I gather.
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The Bureau of Statistics compile the source data. Everything else is someone's opinion on their data.

TheBigShort said:
In the round, the US is effectively bankrupt, or close to it. If you define bankruptcy as being only able to service debt obligations through the creation of further debt, then it is bankrupt.
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Just like us then, yes?
TheBigShort said:
It has itself mired in global conflicts and from where im sitting it is agitating for more conflict.
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Agreed.
TheBigShort said:
Yes, I think the great country we know as the USA is under the cosh of a corporate structures and is doomed to collapse in on itself.
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Even though unemployment is down and low and middle income families are getting a larger proportion of the national income for the first time in 30 or 40 years?
 
Purple said:
The Bureau of Statistics compile the source data. Everything else is someone's opinion on their data.
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U1 to U6 are the data for measuring unemployment. The results in each category vary somewhat. Im inclined not to exclude categories of people in order to obtain a desired outcome.

Purple said:
Just like us then, yes?
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Yep.

Purple said:
Even though unemployment is down and low and middle income families are getting a larger proportion of the national income for the first time in 30 or 40 years?
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Yep. Unless of course this is a consequence of increasing peoples wages to levels that they are worth.
I would be sceptical however. Bogus money printing schemes (QE) most likely feeding into the economy at large most likely in my opinion. I could of course be wrong.
 
TheBigShort said:
U1 to U6 are the data for measuring unemployment. The results in each category vary somewhat. Im inclined not to exclude categories of people in order to obtain a desired outcome.
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Same here. So why are you ignoring the primary data and the analysis done by the Public Servants in the Bureau of Statistics?

TheBigShort said:
Yep. Unless of course this is a consequence of increasing peoples wages to levels that they are worth.
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And who determines that? What if they are worth less than they are paid? If your job can be done by someone in Vietnam for one fifth of your pay then how much is your labour worth? Be careful what you wish for.
TheBigShort said:
I would be sceptical however. Bogus money printing schemes (QE) most likely feeding into the economy at large most likely in my opinion. I could of course be wrong.
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You could indeed.
 
Purple said:
If your job can be done by someone in Vietnam for one fifth of your pay then how much is your labour worth?
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Five times more than a Vietnamese labourer.
If a litre of milk can be bought for one fifth of the price that it costs here how much is the capital investment in a milk producer here worth?
 
TheBigShort said:
Five times more than a Vietnamese labourer.
If a litre of milk can be bought for one fifth of the price that it costs here how much is the capital investment in a milk producer here worth?
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The Capital investment or the Labour investment?
You seem to think the value of a persons labour is tied to their living expenses.
If I have a cocaine habit and lots of kids and you are single and not a junkie should I get paid more for doing the same job as you?
 
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Sorry if I am butting in to a private conversation, but the answer to this question

TheBigShort said:
If a litre of milk can be bought for one fifth of the price that it costs here how much is the capital investment in a milk producer here worth?
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is nothing more than you can get in subsidies from taxpayers.
 
Purple said:
The Capital investment or the Labour investment?
You seem to think the value of a persons labour is tied to their living expenses.
If I have a cocaine habit and lots of kids and you are single and not a junkie should I get paid more for doing the same job as you?
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No. Perhaps you could answer the question now?
 
TheBigShort said:
You asked me what the value of my labour was based on a worker in Vietnam. I said it was five times the value.
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How do you work that out?
If you were both making a product which was being sold in Germany how would you work out the value of your labour?

You asked "If a litre of milk can be bought for one fifth of the price that it costs here how much is the capital investment in a milk producer here worth?" I asked you if you meant capital investment or labour investment. I'm not sure what you are asking.
 
Purple said:
How do you work that out?
If you were both making a product which was being sold in Germany how would you work out the value of your labour?

You asked "If a litre of milk can be bought for one fifth of the price that it costs here how much is the capital investment in a milk producer here worth?" I asked you if you meant capital investment or labour investment. I'm not sure what you are asking.
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It was an ambiguous question, like your one. It is exemplified by throwing another factor into the equation "sold in Germany" after the question is answered. I could easily add that it costs twice as much in wages in Norway to do my job. So how much is my labour worth now? Am I paid too much? Or too little?

In the long run the value of labour will determine the return on capital. The more incomes fall, the narrower the consumer base for highly profitable goods and services to be sold. This is what we are seeing today. The dilution of the purchasing power of labour corresponding with increases in asset values and capital investments.
Cracks are setting in, in Europe and the US.
 
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