John Fitzgerald on Public Sector pay "Restoration"

jjm2016 said:
TheBigShort as you know i have followed your posts .You are the dark Horse. No one so far has the required skill set to tether the Horses all talk and no action,I have to go to work some of us do on a saturday By ALL
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As you know, ive tried to follow your posts. My shift starts at 12pm today, thanks.
 
noproblem said:
John Fitzgerald is ranting on similar to Garret with their averaging of this, that, and the other. After all, he's just an economist and we all know you'll never see 2 of them agree on anything even though they'll all trained in the same way. I do believe the same Mr Fitz worked for the state as an advisor and economist before the proverbial hit the fan. What wonderful work he did and fantastic advice he gave which saved us from going up the swanney. I'd take what John Fitz says with a pinch pinch of salt. His pedigree, when it was tested, proved to be very wanting indeed. However, there's certain people who love to buy a thoroughbred because they think they're buying a racehorse. Nuff said.
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Do you really think that the financial difficulties suffered by the state were caused by taking the advice of the ESRI ?

I suggest that you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
 
cremeegg said:
Do you really think that the financial difficulties suffered by the state were caused by taking the advice of the ESRI ?

I suggest that you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
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I never suggested they did. How could they cause it when they, ie, the ESRI never spotted the signs in the first place? Makes one wonder what they were all doing and why you commented at all. I do believe the very same Mr Fitz made a type of grovelling apology to the Irish people for being asleep on the job though. But sure, compared to you cremeegg what would the rest of us know? I bow to your superiority and serious depth of knowledge. Thanks for reminding us that our opinions don't matter.
 
John Fitzgerald has apologised for not forecasting the crash but he did raise concerns with the Central Bank about the nature of the stress tests which the banks were conducting in relation to a property crash. He said that they were only factoring in house price decreases and ignoring the fact that such drops would not happen in a vacuum. The Central Bank ignored their concerns. The ESRI also warned about property prices as a multiple of incomes, the construction sector as a proportion of the overall economy, the loss of wealth creating jobs (internationally traded goods and services sector) and many other things. If they had been listened to we would not have had the crash we did have. We would have had a recession but nothing like as bad.
 
TheBigShort said:
This is very welcome I have to say. As a public sector worker I have never been comfortable with the blanket public/private sector comparison. I always thought it to be a lazy comparison made by people intent on creating a divide between workers.
There are roughly 5-6 times more private sector workers than public sector workers which indicates levels of business activity not provided by the PbS. These activities will encompass all skill levels from highly technical, professional and innovative to low-skilled minimum wage. The PbS will encompass these skill levels also but it remains to be seen to what range.
Certainly across all government departments and agencies people of high qualification, experience are employed, comparable to high skilled workers in the PrS.
And while there are also low-skilled workers employed in the PbS, the level and range of their activities would not be comparable to the level and range of low skilled work in the PrS.
This is not a sleight on PrS workers (ive worked 10yrs in PrS and am married to PrS worker), just stating a fact that there are no mushroom pickers, car wash attendents, deli workers, trainee hairdressers, waiting staff, fast-food workers, cinema attendants etc...etc...all of which, and more, are associated with low or minimum wage pay.
This, in the round, will have the effect of lowering average overall wages in PrS compared to the PbS in my opinion.
So the opportunity to make wage comparisons between comparable groupings is welcome.
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The information the in the ESRI report takes all that into account. The pay differential was 10% higher in the public Sector before benchmarking and 20% higher afterwards. Despite the cuts in the last few years it is still 5% to 10% higher, particularly among lower paid employees. Given the utter sham which Benchmarking was I don't see how this new commission will be any different. It is being headed by a former Union leader and will be stuffed with Union representatives and unionised civil servants. The facts will be left outside the door and we'll get soundbites about how hard people work, striving for high standards and a few hard luck human interest stories championed by the Public Sector Broadcaster in Montrose.
 
Purple said:
The pay differential was 10% higher in the public Sector before benchmarking and 20% higher afterwards. Despite the cuts in the last few years it is still 5% to 10% higher, particularly among lower paid employees
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Private sector workers really need to stand up and fight. They are being rolled over time and again while the fruits of their productivity get sucked up to the top.
 
TheBigShort said:
Private sector workers really need to stand up and fight. They are being rolled over time and again while the fruits of their productivity get sucked up to the top.
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I agree. We need to really fight the Public Sector Unions which effectively run the country and stop them stealing from us. It is a battle to expose their hypocrisy and the damage they do to working people and the poor when the Public Service Broadcaster is a Union mouthpiece and just about every journalist is a Union member but the struggle for justice and fairness is never easy.
 
Purple said:
I agree. We need to really fight the Public Sector Unions which effectively run the country and stop them stealing from us. It is a battle to expose their hypocrisy and the damage they do to working people and the poor when the Public Service Broadcaster is a Union mouthpiece and just about every journalist is a Union member but the struggle for justice and fairness is never easy.
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One way would be for private sector workers to unionise. Their participation in organised union's is dismal. If the unions are running the country as you say, then all workers need to claim a stake in the unions.
If not, how would you propose to fight public sector unions?
 
TheBigShort said:
One way would be for private sector workers to unionise. Their participation in organised union's is dismal. If the unions are running the country as you say, then all workers need to claim a stake in the unions.
If not, how would you propose to fight public sector unions?
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The Private Sector companies in the real economy that were Unionised have gone out of business as Unions stymie change and make businesses uncompetitive. Private Sector employees are not in Unions as that they know this.
Anyway, we can't all get paid more than than we earn. If we were all in Unions there'd be nobody for us to live off.
 
Purple said:
The Private Sector companies in the real economy that were Unionised have gone out of business as Unions stymie change and make businesses uncompetitive. Private Sector employees are not in Unions as that they know this.
Anyway, we can't all get paid more than than we earn. If we were all in Unions there'd be nobody for us to live off.
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Purple said:
We need to really fight the Public Sector Unions which effectively run the country and stop them stealing from us
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What do you propose to do?
 
Purple said:
I'm just some guy. I can't do much. I will encourage my children to emigrate though as I see no future for them here.
That makes me angry.
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A tad dramatic. Which first world country do you reckon is a sufficiently right wing utopia for your precious flowers to flourish in..?
 
Purple said:
I'm just some guy. I can't do much. I will encourage my children to emigrate though as I see no future for them here.
That makes me angry.
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To where as a matter of interest?

Apologies for the off topic question.
 
Jon Stark said:
A tad dramatic. Which first world country do you reckon is a sufficiently right wing utopia for your precious flowers to flourish in..?
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Do you have any children? Just wondering so I can say something nasty about them.
 
Purple said:
Do you have any children? Just wondering so I can say something nasty about them.
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Where's the nastiness about your children?

Actually, what's nasty at all in my post?! You're very grouchy after the long weekend...

And yes, I do have one precious little flower so far :)

And just for the record, I don't disagree with much of your posting on this thread, despite being a public sector worker myself, but you've strayed into hyperbole.
 
Purple said:
Most of Europe and parts of the USA.
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Is this the same USA that is effectively bankrupt? That hands half of its tax receipts to the military industrial complex, which in turn feeds private sector arms manufacturing, sales etc?
The same USA with increasing number of bankrupt states, and a divided public?
29 million Americans on long-term unemployment, discounted out of the labour force to keep the jobless numbers down.
America is crumbling.
 
TheBigShort said:
Is this the same USA that is effectively bankrupt? That hands half of its tax receipts to the military industrial complex, which in turn feeds private sector arms manufacturing, sales etc?
The same USA with increasing number of bankrupt states, and a divided public?
29 million Americans on long-term unemployment, discounted out of the labour force to keep the jobless numbers down.
America is crumbling.
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Right, yep, crumbling. That's why the middle classes are getting poorer and their incomes are dropping?
Do you think the US Department of Labour's Bureau of Statistics is in cahoots with the government and these Stat's showing the real figures are just made up?
 
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