Is The Demise of Diesel Cars just Slick marketing?

R

RichInSpirit

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I've noticed lately a lot of advertising knocking diesel cars while promoting hybrid electric etc.
There also seems to be great value secondhand diesel cars for sale.
I know diesel has some problems, emissions, exhaust recycling valve failures etc, but they are still very economical to run for the middle to high mileage driver.
 
First of all, I know nothing about cars. But from what others have told me, the future is in hybrid and electric cars. So if you are someone who buys a car and drives it until it dies, it's better to get one with more of a future than one that is based on the past.

Saying that, I saw a broken down Nissan Leaf near the airport on Sunday. No hazards lights or anything, we figured it had run out of electricity in the middle of the road :D

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
I bought my first diesel ever....last year....:) I suspect they are more polluting, and the future is definitely hybrid or electric. Given the number of diesel cars, they will have to phase them out over time.
 
Ever get the feeling that we are being herded like sheep into not buying diesel, etc, but gently forced into having to purchase hybrid, electric, etc, just because it's the new thing and all that baloney. Not many years ago we were being persuaded to change to diesel. I or you go out and buy hybrid, electric, today and in a couple of years that car will more than likely have very little value because a longer distance battery or similar has been invented. I buy diesel, i'll keep buying diesel and the media and spin doctors, politicians, vested interests, etc,for whatever reason won't change my mind. This country, along with many others, is beginning to not allow others voice opinions or have alternative views. Media and many others look down on why another opinion can be even considered. We've seen plenty of that in the last referendums. Long live diesel, that's what I say.
 
Aye, am with noproblem. Hybrid/electric cars are still in their infancy and will change quite a lot over the coming years. I've never been one to get in early on new (or still improving) technology so it's diesel still for me for the foreseeable future.
 
In the shorter term in this country, the car buying public is going to be divided and it will be along urban/rural lines.

For the past ten years or so, diesel made up 75% of sales of which many, many cars were bought by Mummies and Daddies bring their darling offspring the 2/3 km's to school of a morning and afternoon and then nipping around town or to their local shopping centre. They bought these cars because they were cheaper to tax but more expensive in the long run as diesel engines are not suitable for almost exclusive urban, short trip, stop/start driving. These mistakes are now being remedied as the penny has dropped that petrol engines are far more efficient in this environment.

However diesel remains king in rural areas where more frequent longer journeys allied to longer commutes over greater distances are more prevalent. Doing 100km a day is far cheaper in a diesel than a petrol and is better for the engine too. Such journeys will continue and therefore there will be an on-going demand for a cost effective engine to cover these longer distances. That is until such time as electric/plug-in hybrid overcomes its primary limiting factor in the minds of buyers: range.

Thus I see there being an future, medium-term requirement for diesel regardless of what any environmentalist/diesel doomsayer/pundit suggests. It is simply the case that educated, savvy buyers will gravitate to the engine that best suits their average, every day driving.
 
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SBarrett said:
First of all, I know nothing about cars. But from what others have told me, the future is in hybrid and electric cars. So if you are someone who buys a car and drives it until it dies, it's better to get one with more of a future than one that is based on the past.

Saying that, I saw a broken down Nissan Leaf near the airport on Sunday. No hazards lights or anything, we figured it had run out of electricity in the middle of the road :D

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
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The electric car you buy today is already based on the past having said that I drive an electric car because it cost very little to run there is a free charging point close to where I live ,I know the energy regulator is looking at changing the free charging point,
When I bought car had less than 1000 km and had already lost most of its value,
 
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noproblem said:
This country, along with many others, is beginning to not allow others voice opinions or have alternative views.
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So it's some great government conspiracy driving the decline in diesels engines and not the proven link between diesel emissions and plummeting air quality?

Diesel was incentivised back in the '90s in a bid to lower overall CO2 emissions, unfortunately the singular focus at that time was on carbon reduction and no one was looking at the bigger picture. It's now accepted that the other elements in diesel particulate matter (NO2, PAH, etc.)is a much more immediate health concern, a senior UK DoT official was quoted as saying we are effectively killing people today in order to potentially save people tomorrow. The saving of 15% in CO2 emissions has resulted in a quadrupling of NO2, and a 22 fold increase in particulate matter that causes respiratory issues.

The move away from incentivising diesels is this country and many others, is these governments admitting they got it very wrong. So it's clear other opinions and alternative views are considered, but hopefully they'll just listen to the educated ones.
 
I'd slow up on the conspiracy theories lads. If the science is saying that diesel particulates are dangerous and they we shouldn't be creating them then surely we should be moving away from polluting engines.

If fossil fuels are the primary source of GHG emissions and we have to move away from them then that includes, but is not limited to, diesel engines. Is anyone holding off on buying their first computer because the technology is changing every year?
 
The Volkswagen affair demonstrates the dangers of relying too heavily on scientific claims in the context of lucrative car sales. The science behind the relative safety merits of petrol and diesel has not changed in the past 10-15 years but the marketing emphasis has changed several times. No conspiracy theory, just very very slick marketing.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Are you comparing the purchase of a car with the purchase of a computer Rob? o_O
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Hi CB, I'm comparing the premise of not buying because the technology is improving.
If we now know more about the destructive nature of diesel cars and petrol cars aren't an environmentally viable alternative, of course we need to change our buying habits.
 
rob oyle said:
If we now know more about the destructive nature of diesel cars and petrol cars aren't an environmentally viable alternative, of course we need to change our buying habits.
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You do realise that a modern euro6 diesel engine is almost on a par with petrol in terms of emissions, right?? And petrol engines seem to have little or no stigma at present so it is important to compare like with like if we are talking about buying new cars into the future.

http://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-ne...emissions-standards-what-do-they-mean-for-you

Therefore the term 'destructive nature of diesel cars' is somewhat of a misnomer. It might be more accurate to state the 'destructive nature of OLDER diesel engines that will ultimately be phased out of use over time'...
 
I don't know if electric cars are the panacea that they are touted to be.
Lithium for the batteries is very rare, only in 3 places in the world to the best of my knowledge. Lithium ion batteries are the same as the batteries in your mobile phone and most mobile batteries don't see much more than 6 or 7 years life at the most.
 
Thinking of changing my diesel 4wd jeep for a petrol ( not a jeep)

Diesel is in the crosshairs of government , can see it being more and more penalised
 
rob oyle said:
Hi CB, I'm comparing the premise of not buying because the technology is improving.
If we now know more about the destructive nature of diesel cars and petrol cars aren't an environmentally viable alternative, of course we need to change our buying habits.
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Not if it's going to leave us substantially out of pocket we won't. I'll stick with the proven technology, even if it might be less environmentally friendly, until there is an affordable alternative that offers an equivalent quality, especially in terms of journey range, comfort, ease of refuelling, range of models and quantity of second hand stock.
 
tallpaul said:
You do realise that a modern euro6 diesel engine is almost on a par with petrol in terms of emissions, right??
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The newer Euro6 standards have dropped the NO2 limits for diesels from 180mg/km to 80mg/km, so a great improvement, but a Euro6 compliant diesel is still allowed to produce 33% more NO2 emissions than an equivalent Euro6 compliant petrol engine. Petrol engines however are allowed twice diesels CO2 emissions.
 
It's YAMCJ (yet another massive con job). Why won't governments start by imposing the same road taxation regime, emissions measurements and controls to HGVs, farm equipment, stationary engines (cement mixers on trucks, generators, etc), trains, ships, including trawlers and tugboats, generating stations and jet aircraft as they do to cars? What about emissions from petrol lawn mowers if it comes to that?
 
mathepac said:
It's YAMCJ (yet another massive con job). Why won't governments start by imposing the same road taxation regime, emissions measurements and controls to HGVs, farm equipment, stationary engines (cement mixers on trucks, generators, etc), trains, ships, including trawlers and tugboats, generating stations and jet aircraft as they do to cars? What about emissions from petrol lawn mowers if it comes to that?
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I'd guess it's because there is a lot more infrastructure to be provided & maintained for cars compared to all other items you mention (even if the roads are maintained from general taxation and not just motor tax).
 
mathepac said:
Why won't governments start by imposing the same road taxation regime, emissions measurements and controls to HGVs, farm equipment...
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Well, there's no such thing as road tax for a start. But HGVs and agricultural machinery driven on public roads do pay motor tax, lawn mowers and cement mixers of course don't. There's a separate argument for excise on fuel to be increased to correlate to the environmental & air pollution caused. If the government was truly interested in tackling these issues, this would be a more equitable model than paying based on the capacity of an engine to pollute regardless of how much it is used. But of course there are vested interests who lobby heavily on this matter.
 
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