Is anyone else cheesed off with how much people get paid on social welfare

assuming we are talking about all social welfare payments then what are your opinions about people on carers allowance??
i receive carers allowance 244.50 weekly made up of the allowance for myself and my child (whom i care for ) and 26 euro dependant allowance.
my other income is made up of 332 per month child benefit and 300 euro per month dca allowance.
my husband works and earns 300 euro per week and out of that pays 100 euro maintenance per week for his children from a previous relationship.
our outgoings are as follow:
weekly
rent 55
esb 40
ph 30
coal/sticks 20
car 80
insurance 20
travel 80
main 100
food 160
1 weekly take away 25

we struggle every week, we receive reduced esb but our latest bill was 700 euro due to needing our heating on all the time for our child.
our food bill is huge because we have 6 people to feed from friday to sunday morning as his children come up. we cant reduce our car payments as we will incur a shortfall by trading in .
reduce my payment as we will be left with nothing, do u think im receiving too much ???? we rob peter to pay paul every week.
 
liketoknow said:
assuming we are talking about all social welfare payments then what are your opinions about people on carers allowance??
i receive carers allowance 244.50 weekly made up of the allowance for myself and my child (whom i care for ) and 26 euro dependant allowance.
my other income is made up of 332 per month child benefit and 300 euro per month dca allowance.
my husband works and earns 300 euro per week and out of that pays 100 euro maintenance per week for his children from a previous relationship.
our outgoings are as follow:
weekly
rent 55
esb 40
ph 30
coal/sticks 20
car 80
insurance 20
travel 80
main 100
food 160
1 weekly take away 25

we struggle every week, we receive reduced esb but our latest bill was 700 euro due to needing our heating on all the time for our child.
our food bill is huge because we have 6 people to feed from friday to sunday morning as his children come up. we cant reduce our car payments as we will incur a shortfall by trading in .
reduce my payment as we will be left with nothing, do u think im receiving too much ???? we rob peter to pay paul every week.
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I think people's issue with this, and certainly my own, is that some people are being given more than they need to survive which we cannot afford at the moment.

This would not seem to be the case in your situation, nor would it be for most carers, and I don't think anyone would begrudge you what you are receiving.

The current Jobseeker's Benefit/Allowance on the other hand, being paid to a young single person with little or no responsilibities and outgoings can seem a little high in the current climate.
 
Yellow Belly said:
One example of craziness is my sister in law-

unmarried mother so gets approx. €200+ per week, health board pay her rent in a new (built in 2006 3 bed semi) of €900 per month, she & her child have a medical card plus all the other free social welfare benefits. She works long hours at weekends (for cash!!!!) in a nite club/restauarant receiving €275, her boyfriend lives with her (technically not supposed to) and he earns €575 nett per week.
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Could you clarify why your brother is not contributing?
 
Could those of you who think 204 a week is excessive show how their current expenditure is anywhere close to 204. My point being would you like to live on it. Do you realise some people don't turn on the heat as they cannot afford it. To those who think that the state shouldn't help pay for mortgages, which would you prefer you lose your job, then lose your house and then the state has to pay for you to rent. How is the state losing out by paying mortgages. It is no good pointing out certain people who commit fraud and seem to be living the high life, there are plenty who don't and live in poverty. Today for sure it's not a case of go out and get a job, there are no jobs. Long term dole cheats etc will always be with us, that is a separate issue. There is also the perennial problem of social welfare being very close to minimum wage which is a disincentive for some married people to work when they lose benefits like medical cards etc. Also the high cost of childcare can be a disincentive to work as it would not make economic sense.
 
guys can you clarify that the issue is not the amount but how easy it is to defraud the state and how easy it is to get used to claiming this allowance and that allowance and suddenly the person is unable to leave it for the "real world".
 
pennypitstop said:
guys can you clarify that the issue is not the amount but how easy it is to defraud the state and how easy it is to get used to claiming this allowance and that allowance and suddenly the person is unable to leave it for the "real world".
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Yes, I think that’s a good question.
I have no problem with people who need it getting welfare, I wish they could get more.
I do have a problem with those who defraud the state (steal from their neighbours) and those who choose welfare as a way of life because they are too lazy to work. I have no idea what the percentages are in each group so I’m not in a position to comment on it.
 
Questions like this really get my back up.I have 2 children,on rent allowance,no partner and no help from the father.
i get 254 a week,from that i pay rent contribution of 70 odd euro ,70-75 for shopping,usually 70 per week plus the usual milk,bread and so on durning the week,10e top up credit,80 credit union payments,6 garbage every thursday,plus put money aside for gas,elect every week. so by the following wednesday before i get my next 254 i have a total of 5-12 euro.I dont drink,dont go out at weekends.
then you have to think of other things,shoes and clothes for kids,birthdays,travel expensis.
 
niceoneted said:
I look at in terms of disposable income. Someone in receipt of rent allowance, ESB credits, phone credits, tv license paid, medical card and then the welfare payment, against someone out working earning an average wage but having to pay mortgage on a modest house, maybe car loan on a modest car to get them to and from work if inadequate public transport available. sometimes the former have more disposable income and this is where I think things are unfair.
I work full time.
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I believe in the above argument, I work full time, had to travel to work everyday on the train, pay mortgage, train and parking fare, pay for childcare, household bills, feeding e.t.c. At the end of the day, there is nothing left for me;I live from pay packet to packet and some of the people that I know on dole are much better off with latest cars, rent allowance and stuff like that.
 
I don't have a problem with the old age pension, carers allowance. I personally don't have a problem with the amount paid on the dole. I do however have a problem with the long term unemployed part of it. There was no excuse during the boom years to be on the dole longer than a few months but year after year able bodied men and women chose to stay on it as they would lose their 'entitlements' if they found a job. Unless the job was much better than minimum wage it didn't make sense to give up your rent allowance, medical card, dole etc.

Some people have never had a job. They signed on after they left school and remained on it since. This is my pet hate. The government has let us (taxpayers) down by allowing this to happen and those on it down by allowing them to become redundant members of society.

We need a social welfare system that helps people who truly need it but it shouldn't become a gravy train. Those that have worked and contributed via tax/PRSI should be assessed differently than those who haven't. If people have a problem eg. can't read or write this should be addressed. Delicate subject I know but one that should be dealt with as it must be awful to go through life struggling to understand and to try to cover it up.

We are not helping these people by giving them these payments for prolonged amounts of time. The longer you are unemployed the more unemployable you become.
 
Purple said:
Yes, I think that’s a good question.
I have no problem with people who need it getting welfare, I wish they could get more.
I do have a problem with those who defraud the state (steal from their neighbours) and those who choose welfare as a way of life because they are too lazy to work. I have no idea what the percentages are in each group so I’m not in a position to comment on it.
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Totally agree. I have no doubt that there is massive fraud in social welfare. If you see that the Department saved €500 million last year by identifying fraud, it gives you a good idea about the level of fraud out there. However, if you read the posts here, there a few stories of "I know someone who"....and yet people don't report them. Its stealing and a criminal offence but people just wash their hands of it and complain that everyone on social welfare gets paid too much.

I also agree with what you say about the people who make living their lives on welfare a lifestyle choice. There should always be an incentive for people to end their reliance on the State in the shortest possible time. I have my doubts that this always happens but I don't think people earning €200 a week are the main culprits. I take peoples point about school leavers etc getting the same level as someone who worked for 40 years though.
 
MB05 said:
We are not helping these people by giving them these payments for prolonged amounts of time. The longer you are unemployed the more unemployable you become.
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So you agree that "You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves"?
 
Mar123 said:
Bored with public service bashing, so pick on those in receipt of social welfare.

This "I know of a distant cousins, wife's sister etc etc" heresay nonsense, to try and tar everybody with the same brush is becoming ridiculous.
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I agree, if people actually know of Welfare fraud and it obviously bothers them why don't they report the fraudsters? It is impossible that people genuinely on any Welfare benefit are living on the pigs back.
 
liketoknow said:
assuming we are talking about all social welfare payments then what are your opinions about people on carers allowance??
i receive carers allowance 244.50 weekly made up of the allowance for myself and my child (whom i care for ) and 26 euro dependant allowance.
my other income is made up of 332 per month child benefit and 300 euro per month dca allowance.
my husband works and earns 300 euro per week and out of that pays 100 euro maintenance per week for his children from a previous relationship.
our outgoings are as follow:
weekly
rent 55
esb 40
ph 30
coal/sticks 20
car 80
insurance 20
travel 80
main 100
food 160
1 weekly take away 25

we struggle every week, we receive reduced esb but our latest bill was 700 euro due to needing our heating on all the time for our child.
our food bill is huge because we have 6 people to feed from friday to sunday morning as his children come up. we cant reduce our car payments as we will incur a shortfall by trading in .
reduce my payment as we will be left with nothing, do u think im receiving too much ???? we rob peter to pay paul every week.
Click to expand...

em, no. Who said anything about carers allowance. Did you read my original post. My frustration was at the high 'blanket level' of social welfare payments being thrown out, without any thought for the actual cost of living for that person, living in that area, with whatever personal circumstance.

The government, and general public, are talking about redundancies in the public sector, and I asked whether there would be a case for reducing the social welfare payments, and dedicating more staff to assessing recipients of social welfare on a more individual / regional basis.
 
Purple said:
Yes, I think that’s a good question.
I have no problem with people who need it getting welfare, I wish they could get more.
I do have a problem with those who defraud the state (steal from their neighbours) and those who choose welfare as a way of life because they are too lazy to work. I have no idea what the percentages are in each group so I’m not in a position to comment on it.
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Agree entirely with your comments on this. It's unfortunate that those who are in genuine need of social welfare get tarred with the same brush because of layabouts, fraudsters and thieves who abuse the system

However I also have an issue with how social welfare can act as a disencentive to work. An example, I had an employee who came to me a month ago asking to reduce his working week from 5 days to 3 days. When I asked him why, he told me he had worked out that he would be financially better off if he did this because of the social welfare payments he would get in return. Glad to say I refused his request but that is an example of the quite frankly stupid way the system works. And before anyone asks, this guy's salary is 15% above the minimum wage
 
liketoknow said:
assuming we are talking about all social welfare payments then what are your opinions about people on carers allowance??
i receive carers allowance 244.50 weekly made up of the allowance for myself and my child (whom i care for ) and 26 euro dependant allowance.
my other income is made up of 332 per month child benefit and 300 euro per month dca allowance.
my husband works and earns 300 euro per week and out of that pays 100 euro maintenance per week for his children from a previous relationship.
our outgoings are as follow:
weekly
rent 55
esb 40
ph 30
coal/sticks 20
car 80
insurance 20
travel 80
main 100
food 160
1 weekly take away 25

we struggle every week, we receive reduced esb but our latest bill was 700 euro due to needing our heating on all the time for our child.
our food bill is huge because we have 6 people to feed from friday to sunday morning as his children come up. we cant reduce our car payments as we will incur a shortfall by trading in .
reduce my payment as we will be left with nothing, do u think im receiving too much ???? we rob peter to pay paul every week.
Click to expand...

Your husband’s income, if he only works 39 hours a week, is below the minimum wage. How come?
Your food bill still seems high. We have 5 in our house, we are not on a low income, and there no way it would ever cost over €100 a week for food.
€30 a week for a phone is also very high.
If your rent is only €55 a week then you are also getting rent support. This is worth at least another €100 a week to you.
 
I'm not talking about welfare fraud. Nothing to do with the original question. In general, I think that social welfare payments are too high in this country.

To those on social welfare payments, the people paying for you, i.e. the tax payer, me being one of them; I have an entitlement to question whether the payments being received are too high. If I am being asked to take a 10-20% cut in my salary, then what proportion of a reduction should be levied against social welfare?

My friend, (not hearsay, or "I know someone who knows someone through a friend of a friend"), is a single man, in his early thirties, with no kids, loans, mortgages or any other of the modern drains on income.

He has at least EUR100 extra cash every week to enjoy himself with. I am angry that this is the case. Why should I, and everyone else, be struggling to contribute to this country's economy, while people like him, sit and enjoy themselves? Report him - for what? Being a lazy twat. He says he's looking for work, but just can't find any - don't you know all Irish businesses only employ Polish people?

Where is the system that helps this individual to get work, or forces them.

I never said that 'Cathy', a single mum, with 2 kids getting no support, a house in Cork city, is getting too much money, or is living in the lap of luxury.

Quite the opposite. I think Cathy should be getting more support, no problem with it. I have a sister in law in a similar position. She is a single mum, who put herself through college, got her degree & h'dip. , and is now a full time teacher, all since she's had her kid. I don't think people like this get near enough support.

What is wrong with assessing the average cost of living in each county, and major town / city? Cut social welfare based on these regional figures, and devote more people to assessing whether the few need more cash to survive?

In the examples of people getting hot blood above; they are all outside what I would call 'the norm'

You have dependant children
You are a single mother
You are a carer

All of these are circumstances which can be, and are currently, addressed outside the scope of social welfare payments.

Guys, it comes down to this; The country is on it's knees, many don't realize it, or think we're all rosey; I want to live in this country, and I want it to prosper, but these are hard times. If the government comes out tomorrow and says the basic tax rate is going up to 25%, fine. If that's what we need, then I'm ok with it. I just want to make sure money is being spent where it's needed.
 
And I don't think anyone would argue with you on any of your points. My point is that you can't make a general statement of saying social welfare is too high based on your friend. I am assuming you earn alot more than €200 a week so a 10% paycut for you is not the same as a 10% pay cut for someone on €200 a week. So whats a proper level? 1% cut, 2% cut? Your idea of tailoring social welfare payments to each individuals living requirement would be an administrative and possibly legal nightmare. You would also open the system up to large fraud if you decided that people in Dublin deserved to be paid more than someone in Carlow because the cost of living was higher. Wait and see the amount of people who suddenly got Dublin addresses!
 
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