Noor77 said:I'm going to totally stick my neck out now but ..... I would rather be a beautiful / pretty size 16 than an average looking size 10 or 12 any day!
(As I said I'm 12 on top, 14 on bottom, so I'm not talking about myself, just in general!)
so your saying that you would rather be goodlooking and fat rather than being average and healthy!
Also i totally agree that curves are womanly, however i dont think you have to be a size 16 to have curves. IMO a girl can have curves at any size whether its a size 8/10 or whatever size just as fat girls can be flatchested with big assess ie pear shaped.
Most women who claim they are real women and curvy IMO are neither as they are generally just round and straight down, with their bellies prodding out beyond their boobs. IMO curvy is the hourglass figure and not the pearshape or apple shape as most women a size 16 are...
MissRibena
Registered User
- Messages
- 350
I find a lot of sully's comments pretty offensive (which, perversely, is great really cos I've missed the debates on AAM).
The word "fat" is unhelpful because it is not a descriptive "fact" but a subjective descriptive term, often used in a derogatory sense. As we have seen here, one person's "fat" is another's "curvy". The word "overweight" is medically defined, so causes much less problems. Nobody was called "overweighty" in the school playground! I think people here are blurring the line between beauty and obesity. I reckon the original poster's "friend" is really asking "Is a size 16 female ugly?", which is a pretty pathetic conversation to be having in the first place, IMHO.
A woman size 16 may or may not be overweight; she would need to consult her BMI to know. Dress sizes are notoriously unreliable and anyone judging their body mass by them is wasting their time. In any case, it is her own business.
Rebecca
The word "fat" is unhelpful because it is not a descriptive "fact" but a subjective descriptive term, often used in a derogatory sense. As we have seen here, one person's "fat" is another's "curvy". The word "overweight" is medically defined, so causes much less problems. Nobody was called "overweighty" in the school playground! I think people here are blurring the line between beauty and obesity. I reckon the original poster's "friend" is really asking "Is a size 16 female ugly?", which is a pretty pathetic conversation to be having in the first place, IMHO.
A woman size 16 may or may not be overweight; she would need to consult her BMI to know. Dress sizes are notoriously unreliable and anyone judging their body mass by them is wasting their time. In any case, it is her own business.
Rebecca
Fat is fat. But fat really isn't the point. Male or female, we should be healthy and well toned. We all know whether we are overwieight or not. I am 12stn and over 6ft tall but I know I need to tone up. In Ireland today we pretty much all need to do more exercise.
I am a firm believer in eastern philosophy which says that you cannot have a healthy mind without a healthy body and vice versa.
So whether a woman is size 16 or size 12, if she is healthy and toned she will know herself whether she is 'fat' or not.
I am a firm believer in eastern philosophy which says that you cannot have a healthy mind without a healthy body and vice versa.
So whether a woman is size 16 or size 12, if she is healthy and toned she will know herself whether she is 'fat' or not.
thehill said:
If Nigella lawson was proud to be the way she is then why are all the programs i have seen of her in, she is wearing black a notorious slimming trick and wearing heels another slimming trick and also notice the camera work, any full body shots are always in soft focus/blurred and from a distance and any close up shots of her are basically head shots and cleavage. A woman is not curvy if her waist is larger than her hips and chest. I doubt any woman that is a size 16 has a BMI less than 25 which is the highest healthy BMI.
I think its hilarious than people get on their high horses over calling someone overweight(Fat I will stop using this term as i dont want to offend) But these same people think nothing of refferring to thin girls as "skin and bones" "skinny" and that they dont have curves.
Lets take a few figures here
I reckon a size 8 girl at 5'7" would be approx 10and a 1/2 stone a healthy BMI of 23
so lets just say a half stone(it should be more like 3/4 stone) increase for every dress size which is a fair assumption so that would make a size 16 girl at 5'7" a weight of 12 and a 1/2 stone and an overweight BMI of over 27.
sully said:
Oh dear Sully, if you are a guy (as I imagine you probably are), I really, really, really pity your girlfriend / your future girlfriends. I would hate to go out with someone like you! I went out with a male model before and I guess I was kind of paranoid that my size 14 bottom half and size 12 upper half weren't exactly what he would be used to....but he was totally miffed when I mentioned this to him and said that as far as he was concerned some of the female models that he worked with were just one step removed from being totally masculine in shape and he preferred me any day
!!!Noor77 said:Oh dear Sully, if you are a guy (as I imagine you probably are), I really, really, really pity your girlfriend / your future girlfriends. I would hate to go out with someone like you! I went out with a male model before and I guess I was kind of paranoid that my size 14 bottom half and size 12 upper half weren't exactly what he would be used to....but he was totally miffed when I mentioned this to him and said that as far as he was concerned some of the female models that he worked with were just one step removed from being totally masculine in shape and he preferred me any day
That reminds me of what every guy says when they are asked does my bum look big in this(but saying a little white lie is good cos i am sure that you had other qualities that he did find attractive and this argument is not about looks for me its about health.). and all i am saying is that there is no way that a size 16 person can be a healthy weight according to BMI stats, and the lower the BMI the healthier a person generally is.
I wonder why this person is asking is a size 16 fat. to me the question is more 'can a size 16 lady be attractive?', and as beauty is in the eye of the beholder they certainly can be. the reason I say this is I reckon if you told the person ' yes you are fat but youre very attractive' theyd be quite happy as I suspect their underlying motive is to feel that they are desirable. And certainly theres plenty of people out there who find larger women desirable, everyone out there is desired by someone so this person should IMO not be looking for external validation to feel good about themselves - "am I happy with myself" is a far more pertinent question than "are others happy with/attracted to me".
I feel physically better when I'm in good shape and this has a positive affect mentally aswell and I suspect that many overweight people would feel better with the sense of pride and achievement they would feel if they got in shape. Likewise theres plenty of overweight people happy the way they are, and so long as their health is not in danger, good luck to them I say.
However, I for one would not be physically attracted to size 16 women and, if they are honest, most men would admit the same, un-PC as it may be. I'm not attracted to women who are rake thin either but I find the backlash against skinny women (e.g. "she's too skinny its terrible") just as bad as any derogatory remarks about fat women. Oh and for the record, I use the word fat as a descriptive term and refer to someone who is carrying some extra weight as 'overweight', someone who is carrying a lot of extra weight 'fat', and someone who is dangerously overweight as 'obese'
I feel physically better when I'm in good shape and this has a positive affect mentally aswell and I suspect that many overweight people would feel better with the sense of pride and achievement they would feel if they got in shape. Likewise theres plenty of overweight people happy the way they are, and so long as their health is not in danger, good luck to them I say.
However, I for one would not be physically attracted to size 16 women and, if they are honest, most men would admit the same, un-PC as it may be. I'm not attracted to women who are rake thin either but I find the backlash against skinny women (e.g. "she's too skinny its terrible") just as bad as any derogatory remarks about fat women. Oh and for the record, I use the word fat as a descriptive term and refer to someone who is carrying some extra weight as 'overweight', someone who is carrying a lot of extra weight 'fat', and someone who is dangerously overweight as 'obese'
You know if you are so happy with your figure, then why feel the need to open a discussion on your stats with complete strangers on the net??!! Personally I don't need to validate my own body image in such a sad way. I am beautiful, intelligent and slim.You can have it all if you want it. My advice to you would be to sort out your self-esteem issues from the inside out. Mrs.Sully.
look, we all know girls that are fat and guys that are fat, some take offense others openly call themselves fat and laugh at it. Is it just the language we use today that some take offense at some words (not just fat?) is it just whats politically correct today? it must be. I love a good debate as much as next but I take offense when some says " I take offense to that term" as it is only the language of the day whether the term was used derogatively or not. Read Bill brysons "mother tongue" to find some examples of what victorians take offense to to find out the whether its the language or the meaning behind it.
some questions
what do people find offensive, the word "fat" or the association that they think it meant "ugly"?
What term would not offend to describe one who was overweight?
If one person finds a "fat" person attractive but another not and they still use the term "fat" is it still politically incorrect?
And please,Im really not getting at anyone here, just interested to see the views of those who get offended at the use of the word "fat" and its ilk.
Ive found a site which lists the following terms to all those who wish to not offend.
|> aesthetically challenged - ugly
|> amphibian American - frog
|> aquatically challenged - drowning
|> biologically challenged - dead
|> bovine control officers - Dallas Cowboys
|> Caucasian Culturally-Disadvantaged - white trash
|> certified astrological consultant - crackpot
|> certified crystal therapist - crackpot
|> certified past-life regression hypnotist - crackpot
|> chronologically gifted - old
|> client of the correctional system - prisoner
|> codependent - finger-pointer
|> constructivist feminist psychotherapy - psychobabble
|> creatively re-dyed - stained
|> cyclically challenged - having PMS
|> differently organized - messy
|> differently-brained - stupid
|> economically disadvantaged - welfare bum
|> economically marginalized - poor
|> energy-efficient - off
|> environmentally correct human - dead
|> equal opportunity employee - bisexual hooker
|> erectionally challenged - impotent
|> facially challenged - ugly
|> factually unencumbered - ignorant
|> fecally plenary - full of crap
|> female gender biased - prefers women who shave their legs
|> financially inept - po'
|> folically independent - bald
|> follower of Jimmy Swaggert - lost
|> genetically discriminating - racist
|> geological correction - earthquake
|> government employee - stupid
|> grammatically challenged - one who has difficulties with grammar or (by
|> extension) punctuation or spelling
|> gravitationally challenged - fat
|> hirsutely challenged - bald
|> horizontally challenged - thin
|> horizontally gifted - fat
|> in denial - unaware that forgetting something obviously proves it happened
|> in recovery - drunk/junkie
|> intellectually impaired - stupid
|> living impaired - dead
|> maintenance hole - man-hole
|> male gender biased - prefers men who shave their chests
|> mechanically challenged - broken down automobile
|> melanin-impoverished - white
|> metabolically challenged - dead
|> microslothically Challenged - Windows user
|> monetarily challenged - poor
|> morally (ethically) challenged - a crook
|> morally handicapped - someone who has no other reason to park in a
|> handicapped zone
|> motivationally dispossessed - lazy
|> musically delayed - tone deaf
|> nasally disadvantaged - really BIG nose
|> nasally gifted - runny nose
|> nasally gifted - large nose
|> nitpicklike - humor challenged
|> one who is PC - target practice
|> ontologically challenged - fictional or mythological
|> osmotically challenged - Thirsty
|> other aged - too old/young (dual purpose)
|> outdoor urban dwellers - homeless
|> people of height - too tall
|> person of region - redneck
|> person of substance - fat
|> persons living with entropy - dead
|> persons of large stature - NY Giants
|> petroleum transfer technician - gas station attendent
|> racially challenged - butt-white American
|> residentially flexible - homeless
|> rhythmically challenged - white boy
|> romantically challenged - not with somebody at the moment
|> rustically inclined - redneck
|> sanitation engineer - garbage man
|> sex care provider - prostitute
|> sexually focused chronologically gifted individual - dirty old man
|> socially challenged - geek, nerd, whatever...
|> spacially perplexed - drunk
|> street activity index - crime rate
|> suffering from a sex addiction (female) - slut
|> suffering from a sex addiction (male) - stud
|> target equity group - vocal minority
|> the absolute root of all evil known in the multidimensional infinity of
|> reality - white male
|> uniquely coordinated - clumsy
|> uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path - loser
|> verbally challenged - mute, dumb
|> vertically challenged - short
|> visually challenged - blind
some questions
what do people find offensive, the word "fat" or the association that they think it meant "ugly"?
What term would not offend to describe one who was overweight?
If one person finds a "fat" person attractive but another not and they still use the term "fat" is it still politically incorrect?
And please,Im really not getting at anyone here, just interested to see the views of those who get offended at the use of the word "fat" and its ilk.
Ive found a site which lists the following terms to all those who wish to not offend.
|> aesthetically challenged - ugly
|> amphibian American - frog
|> aquatically challenged - drowning
|> biologically challenged - dead
|> bovine control officers - Dallas Cowboys
|> Caucasian Culturally-Disadvantaged - white trash
|> certified astrological consultant - crackpot
|> certified crystal therapist - crackpot
|> certified past-life regression hypnotist - crackpot
|> chronologically gifted - old
|> client of the correctional system - prisoner
|> codependent - finger-pointer
|> constructivist feminist psychotherapy - psychobabble
|> creatively re-dyed - stained
|> cyclically challenged - having PMS
|> differently organized - messy
|> differently-brained - stupid
|> economically disadvantaged - welfare bum
|> economically marginalized - poor
|> energy-efficient - off
|> environmentally correct human - dead
|> equal opportunity employee - bisexual hooker
|> erectionally challenged - impotent
|> facially challenged - ugly
|> factually unencumbered - ignorant
|> fecally plenary - full of crap
|> female gender biased - prefers women who shave their legs
|> financially inept - po'
|> folically independent - bald
|> follower of Jimmy Swaggert - lost
|> genetically discriminating - racist
|> geological correction - earthquake
|> government employee - stupid
|> grammatically challenged - one who has difficulties with grammar or (by
|> extension) punctuation or spelling
|> gravitationally challenged - fat
|> hirsutely challenged - bald
|> horizontally challenged - thin
|> horizontally gifted - fat
|> in denial - unaware that forgetting something obviously proves it happened
|> in recovery - drunk/junkie
|> intellectually impaired - stupid
|> living impaired - dead
|> maintenance hole - man-hole
|> male gender biased - prefers men who shave their chests
|> mechanically challenged - broken down automobile
|> melanin-impoverished - white
|> metabolically challenged - dead
|> microslothically Challenged - Windows user
|> monetarily challenged - poor
|> morally (ethically) challenged - a crook
|> morally handicapped - someone who has no other reason to park in a
|> handicapped zone
|> motivationally dispossessed - lazy
|> musically delayed - tone deaf
|> nasally disadvantaged - really BIG nose
|> nasally gifted - runny nose
|> nasally gifted - large nose
|> nitpicklike - humor challenged
|> one who is PC - target practice
|> ontologically challenged - fictional or mythological
|> osmotically challenged - Thirsty
|> other aged - too old/young (dual purpose)
|> outdoor urban dwellers - homeless
|> people of height - too tall
|> person of region - redneck
|> person of substance - fat
|> persons living with entropy - dead
|> persons of large stature - NY Giants
|> petroleum transfer technician - gas station attendent
|> racially challenged - butt-white American
|> residentially flexible - homeless
|> rhythmically challenged - white boy
|> romantically challenged - not with somebody at the moment
|> rustically inclined - redneck
|> sanitation engineer - garbage man
|> sex care provider - prostitute
|> sexually focused chronologically gifted individual - dirty old man
|> socially challenged - geek, nerd, whatever...
|> spacially perplexed - drunk
|> street activity index - crime rate
|> suffering from a sex addiction (female) - slut
|> suffering from a sex addiction (male) - stud
|> target equity group - vocal minority
|> the absolute root of all evil known in the multidimensional infinity of
|> reality - white male
|> uniquely coordinated - clumsy
|> uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path - loser
|> verbally challenged - mute, dumb
|> vertically challenged - short
|> visually challenged - blind
MissRibena
Registered User
- Messages
- 350
car said:
If you feel you really must comment on someone's weight, though why people don't mind their own business and live and let live is something I cannot fathom, then you've answered your own question. Above you used "fat" in association with ugly and "overweight" when you temper the tone of the second sentence.
Don't get het up about what's PC or un-PC, it's all just about showing people a little respect.
Rebecca
I think thats a bit too defensive. The original poster wanted to know if people regard a size 16 woman as fat and people are entitled to give their opinions and I think you are jumping to conclusions by saying there is a lack of respect in these opinions.
I for one have explained that I use the term ‘fat’ to describe someone who is carrying a lot of extra weight, and since this extra weight takes the form of fat I find it a fairly accurate description. I describe someone with a bit of extra weight (as mentioned before - the BMI gives a good indication of this) as overweight, so I guess I could use the term 'very overweight' for fat people. The terms ‘large’ and ‘heavy’ are not accurate in this instance as you can be both large and heavy without being fat (for example I’d say the Williams sisters are both fairly big women and their muscle mass means they would be relatively heavy, but they both have fantastic bodies with not a pick of fat on them). If a woman is quite short and does not have a very large frame and is still a size 16 she is likely to be carrying a lot of extra weight and so I would describe her as fat.
I don’t see how accurately describing someone’s appearance is offensive unless, of course, it is used in a derogatory manner, but if you take that line then I guess if someone with ginger hair asks you what colour their hair is you’d say ‘strawberry blonde’.
Of course if someone asked me were they fat I’d put it more diplomatically just to ensure they don’t take offence where none is intended, but if they demanded an honest answer I would see no reason not to use the word fat. I completely fail to see how this is perceived as a lack of respect for fat people so long as the intention is not to cause offence (i.e. can I then not call someone who is.6ft 9inches ‘tall’ due to the fact they got some abuse in school over being ‘lanky’?).
I for one have explained that I use the term ‘fat’ to describe someone who is carrying a lot of extra weight, and since this extra weight takes the form of fat I find it a fairly accurate description. I describe someone with a bit of extra weight (as mentioned before - the BMI gives a good indication of this) as overweight, so I guess I could use the term 'very overweight' for fat people. The terms ‘large’ and ‘heavy’ are not accurate in this instance as you can be both large and heavy without being fat (for example I’d say the Williams sisters are both fairly big women and their muscle mass means they would be relatively heavy, but they both have fantastic bodies with not a pick of fat on them). If a woman is quite short and does not have a very large frame and is still a size 16 she is likely to be carrying a lot of extra weight and so I would describe her as fat.
I don’t see how accurately describing someone’s appearance is offensive unless, of course, it is used in a derogatory manner, but if you take that line then I guess if someone with ginger hair asks you what colour their hair is you’d say ‘strawberry blonde’.
Of course if someone asked me were they fat I’d put it more diplomatically just to ensure they don’t take offence where none is intended, but if they demanded an honest answer I would see no reason not to use the word fat. I completely fail to see how this is perceived as a lack of respect for fat people so long as the intention is not to cause offence (i.e. can I then not call someone who is.6ft 9inches ‘tall’ due to the fact they got some abuse in school over being ‘lanky’?).
It is also about people getting easily offended these days. It can be very refreshing to hear people speak their mind regardless of what people think of their opinion or what languauge they use. Just as long as they respect other peoples opinions and the language other people chose to use. Sometimes it's nice to hear people tell it like they see it. That's why I find Hyde Park corner so entertaining. I even enjoy Ian O'Dohertys column in the indo, even though often I don't agree with his views.
MissRibena
Registered User
- Messages
- 350
I dunno guys ... it's one thing expressing an opinion, another thing is deliberately using offensive-ish words to attract a bit of attention or being too lazy to figure out the correct terminology to use or being just plain old-fashioned ignorant. Kevin Myers anyone? If people are expressing an opinion as opposed to stating a fact, then "fat" is acceptable. But the question, as I understood it, wasn't asking for an opinion, it asked for an edict on whether a size 16 female was fat, which is not possible.
"I completely fail to see how this is perceived as a lack of respect for fat people so long as the intention is not to cause offence"
If you really don't want to offend, maybe it would be safer to use a word with less offensive connotations then .. just to be on the safe side and avoid people misconstruing your simple statement as something more judgement-laden. Like I said, nobody was called "overweighty" as a taunt. A term is offensive if someone (the object) finds it offensive, regardless of the intentions of the subject.
And yes it's a minefield and difficult to keep track of what words are the best to use and it changes over time but that doesn't mean we should just stop trying and use whatever words suit us. I think if we want to debate the nuances of something like this, then we have to be prepared to take the time to measure our language. That's the kind of respect I meant really.
My mother genuinely doesn't intend any offense when she calls travellers "tinkers" but I still cringe at that too and remind her that other people will think she means something she doesn't.
Rebecca
"I completely fail to see how this is perceived as a lack of respect for fat people so long as the intention is not to cause offence"
If you really don't want to offend, maybe it would be safer to use a word with less offensive connotations then .. just to be on the safe side and avoid people misconstruing your simple statement as something more judgement-laden. Like I said, nobody was called "overweighty" as a taunt. A term is offensive if someone (the object) finds it offensive, regardless of the intentions of the subject.
And yes it's a minefield and difficult to keep track of what words are the best to use and it changes over time but that doesn't mean we should just stop trying and use whatever words suit us. I think if we want to debate the nuances of something like this, then we have to be prepared to take the time to measure our language. That's the kind of respect I meant really.
My mother genuinely doesn't intend any offense when she calls travellers "tinkers" but I still cringe at that too and remind her that other people will think she means something she doesn't.
Rebecca
eh, as for the original poster's intention - it doesn't really get any clearer than this now does it "What does anyone else think?"?
The poster is looking for honest OPINIONS and since this is all done anonymously then theres plenty of scope to be candid.
the "tinkers" point is a red herring - that is a case of prejudice involving labelling a person based on their perceived membership of a certain social group.
The Myers point is also an unfair comparison as the B word he used is generally regarded as a curse word and its use is rarely intended to cause anything but hurt. When used as merely a descriptive term, the word fat is an accurate physical description of some people and can be used in a non offensive manner.
"A term is offensive if someone (the object) finds it offensive, regardless of the intentions of the subject." I disagree - IMO a term is offensive only if its intent can be reasonably interpreted as offensive.
For instance, I have a male friend who is very short. Does this mean I cannot use the word 'short' to describe his appearance in case he takes offence to this.
To summarise....if I was asked by the police to give descriptions of the following four people to allow them draw them, these are the descriptions I would give:
A "tinker" - eh I'd describe the person's physical apperance as I would for anybody
A child of a single mother - I'd desrcibe the child's apperance
My short mate - "Short, slight build, black hair".
A size 16 woman who is 5ft 6inches tall - "short/medium height, fat, with brown hair etc. etc." I think if I said overweight, the person in the picture would not be big enough, and if I said obese the person drawn would be too big. Of course I could say 'very overweight' in place of 'fat' but I would argue that if you take offence to one of these terms you will take offence to the other aswell but if 'very overweight' is less offensive then I'll stick with that.
The poster is looking for honest OPINIONS and since this is all done anonymously then theres plenty of scope to be candid.
the "tinkers" point is a red herring - that is a case of prejudice involving labelling a person based on their perceived membership of a certain social group.
The Myers point is also an unfair comparison as the B word he used is generally regarded as a curse word and its use is rarely intended to cause anything but hurt. When used as merely a descriptive term, the word fat is an accurate physical description of some people and can be used in a non offensive manner.
"A term is offensive if someone (the object) finds it offensive, regardless of the intentions of the subject." I disagree - IMO a term is offensive only if its intent can be reasonably interpreted as offensive.
For instance, I have a male friend who is very short. Does this mean I cannot use the word 'short' to describe his appearance in case he takes offence to this.
To summarise....if I was asked by the police to give descriptions of the following four people to allow them draw them, these are the descriptions I would give:
A "tinker" - eh I'd describe the person's physical apperance as I would for anybody
A child of a single mother - I'd desrcibe the child's apperance
My short mate - "Short, slight build, black hair".
A size 16 woman who is 5ft 6inches tall - "short/medium height, fat, with brown hair etc. etc." I think if I said overweight, the person in the picture would not be big enough, and if I said obese the person drawn would be too big. Of course I could say 'very overweight' in place of 'fat' but I would argue that if you take offence to one of these terms you will take offence to the other aswell but if 'very overweight' is less offensive then I'll stick with that.
vvv
but there is an edict in the BMI scale and fat analysis, I sincerely doubt any woman that is a size 16of having a BMI less than 25 which means that when height and weigth are taken into account that the person is overweight(or fat). I would gladly take back everything i said if a person that is a sze 16 has a BMI less than 25 and with body fat percentages within a healthy range.
http://www.healthchecksystems.com/bodyfat.htm
Also then at what size does a person become fat/unacceptable, would you say a size 20+ is healthy. or would you let someone that is obese carry on as they are just so as not to cause offence even though their health is severely at risk. I reckon its better to be honest with people and that if someone is at an unhealthy size that they should be told to lose a bit of weight.
If Big/Fat is truly beautiful, why then do people spend so much time trying to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight, Sure we should all go out and gorge ourselves to make ourselves beautiful. The thing is, that people will keep pushing up the size saying that is the "norm" until someone says no its not normal(shouldn't be normal) to be overweight
MissRibena said:
but there is an edict in the BMI scale and fat analysis, I sincerely doubt any woman that is a size 16of having a BMI less than 25 which means that when height and weigth are taken into account that the person is overweight(or fat). I would gladly take back everything i said if a person that is a sze 16 has a BMI less than 25 and with body fat percentages within a healthy range.
http://www.healthchecksystems.com/bodyfat.htm
Also then at what size does a person become fat/unacceptable, would you say a size 20+ is healthy. or would you let someone that is obese carry on as they are just so as not to cause offence even though their health is severely at risk. I reckon its better to be honest with people and that if someone is at an unhealthy size that they should be told to lose a bit of weight.
If Big/Fat is truly beautiful, why then do people spend so much time trying to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight, Sure we should all go out and gorge ourselves to make ourselves beautiful. The thing is, that people will keep pushing up the size saying that is the "norm" until someone says no its not normal(shouldn't be normal) to be overweight