ClubMan said:I think that the fuss is due to the fact that management agreed a deal with the employees and are now reneging on this and ignoring the rulings of statutory bodies (e.g. the Labour Court etc.) on matters.
Don't assume that because 90% voted to accept the offer, they were actually happy with the offer. They weren't - the gun was put to their head - accept this offer or get nothing next time round.ronan_d_john said:It's unfortunate that the 10% of a the current Irish Ferries crew aren't happy with their redundancy package, but most people aren't. But again, they get on with things.
RainyDay said:Don't assume that because 90% voted to accept the offer, they were actually happy with the offer. They weren't - the gun was put to their head - accept this offer or get nothing next time round.
ronan_d_john said:As was mentioned on Q&A last night by the economist, I do believe that this is an issue of union relevancy more than anything else.
Unions are driven by their members. It's the members who decide how big an issue to make of things, not the union officials.ronan_d_john said:I accept that this is the case being put forward by the unions, but to be honest, I don't believe it.
All redundancy offers are a take it or leave it offer. Irish Ferries is no different to any other company in that fashion. You take the offer, or leave it.
Using the terms "gun to head" is very emotive, but a complete smoke screen by the unions. Every person everywhere has a gun to their head when their offered redundancy.
It's my opinion that on an initial examination of the offer, the staff that accepted were happy enough when they got it, but when the union found out, and wanted to make their big deal about it, this is when the "next time around" issue, and "gun to heads" issues were raised.
As was mentioned on Q&A last night by the economist, I do believe that this is an issue of union relevancy more than anything else.
Has management come out and say they are accepting eastern european wages ?
ubiquitous said:What has this to do with anything?
"Irish" Ferries had brought in management consultants well over a year ago
They had plenty of choices. They had the choice not to enter a multi-year agreement with their workforce which they are now walking away from. They had the choice not to heavily invest in additional capacity for the Irish Sea when every observer could see the low-cost airlines tearing away at their market. Who's paying the price for management incompetence now?Brendan said:Irish Ferries has to compete with other ferry companies who have a much cheaper and much more flexible workforce. They have no choice but to implement these changes or go out of business.
Brendan said:I reckon the unions should be covered by the monopoly legislation. If they don't want to work, they should not be allowed to stop other people from working.
Far too simplistic. Remember that it was Ruairi Quinn (Labour) as Minister for Finance who brought into the low corporation tax rate. And it was Mary Harney (PD) who brought in the minimum wage. Labels aren't helping get to the bottom of this issue.Lemurz said:Seems to me this whole storm is back to basics - capitalism versus socialism!
Dell, Microsoft, Pfizer, Abbott and many other large employers wouldn't be in Ireland today if we favoured the socialist model. We can't have it both ways.
and just six short lines or cogent argument later...Welcome back Maggie - Where have you been all these years?
Labels aren't helping get to the bottom of this issue.
The only reason that Irish Ferries can do this is because they can re-flag in any other EU country. This was allowed under one of the EU treaties, I think it was Maastricht but it could have been Nice. Under international law shipping companies are governed by the laws of the country that they are registered in, not the countries that they operate to and from. Therefore the case that this is the start of the “race to the bottom” does not stack up.cuchulainn said:if irish ferries succeed in this con of saying they have to make irish staff redundant and replace them with less well paid eastern european (eu citizens) whats to stop Cie doing the same next year.
For the same reasons outlined above. In law they are not, or will not be, operating in Ireland. They will be operating in Cyprus but running ships from Ireland.RainyDay said:Is there any good reason why minimum-wage legislation shouldn't apply to ferry companies, just like every other business in Ireland?
cuchulainn said:if irish ferries succeed in this con of saying they have to make irish staff redundant and replace them with less well paid eastern european (eu citizens) whats to stop Cie doing the same next year. tell the train drivers that they cant afford them and replace them with lower paid train drivers also from the eu but on much less wages. ( the min rate?) Then where? the bottom has no limit.
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