. . . . wrong again Purple! - It's their pensions entitlements (note pensions not pension).
Ireland to move to Level 3 from 1st December
- Thread starter odyssey06
- Start date
If their pension(s) entitlement was that good then more people from the real economy would be politicians.
The pensions are in line with senior civil servants so yes, they are excellent but they can't claim them until they are in their 50's so if someone loses their seat in their 30's they could have no income for 20 years. That's why so many people from the State sector and to a lesser extent the self employed become TD's
Is this actually true, Purple?
I'd be amazed if the accrual basis and other conditions weren't more attractive for TDs/Ministers versus civil servants?
Good explainer here
Those elected after 2004 are on far less attractive pensions and can't draw them until they are 65. Those elected before 2004 can draw their pension at 50.
The pensions for ministers are way better. The pensions for TD's are about the same as the rt of the public sector and nowhere near as the pensions Gardai get. They also have a maximum of 5 years job security.
Anyway, this is way off topic.
Off topic yes but current TDs at N/40ths accrual and N/16ths accrual for ministers is nowhere near comparable to the current career average civil service scheme. Your the one that brought it up!
As a matter of interest, comparing like for like, what is the accrual rate as a % of salary for new guards - i.e. those post 2012 who are subject to the career average plan?
As a matter of interest, comparing like for like, what is the accrual rate as a % of salary for new guards - i.e. those post 2012 who are subject to the career average plan?
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New entrants? Absolutely; they were shafted by their Unions to protect the T's & C's of the existing members. Now they are pretending that they care. That's a recent thing though.
The average income of a Guard is €67,000 plus allowances so well over €70k a year. With their very generous pension their package is worth over €100,000 a year. New entrants will be worse off but they are still well paid.
The average salary of a nurse is €56,000 plus their pension brings their package to well over €70,000.
Teachers are the best paid graduates in the country after 5 years working (better than engineers or doctors or scientists).
I'm not saying any off them don't deserve it but they aren't badly paid.
TD's and Ministers work long hours and work hard. Ministers are in very stressful jobs. You mightn't like them all, I certainly don't, but they work harder and longer than just about any Garda or Nurse or Teacher (or engineer or whatever).
I warmed to Simon Harris in his last year or so as Minister for Health. I'm not impressed with the new boy. I wouldn't for a moment say that he isn't doing his very best and working extremely hard. I can't stand most of the Shinners but I'd say they are also very hard working and sacrificing time with their families at all hours of the night and day. It's a very hard, very high risk job. They should be very well paid.
Purple,
I was only questioning your comment about the pensions of politicians being in line with senior civil servants. It is not true.
The only reason I mentioned new entrants in my last post is because there are so many different pension schemes. For new entrants, politicians win.
If you want to go back in time - say 20 years ago, the TDs pension was 50% of salary after 20 years payable from age 50 (plus gratuity)
The guards pension is 50% of salary after 30 years payable from age 55 (plus gratuity)
By your own admission, the cops used to get the pension cream.
Demonstrably, run of the mill TD, did miles better than the cop so we can figure that he is doing miles and miles better than the civil servant which was the point that I was querying.
I was only questioning your comment about the pensions of politicians being in line with senior civil servants. It is not true.
The only reason I mentioned new entrants in my last post is because there are so many different pension schemes. For new entrants, politicians win.
If you want to go back in time - say 20 years ago, the TDs pension was 50% of salary after 20 years payable from age 50 (plus gratuity)
The guards pension is 50% of salary after 30 years payable from age 55 (plus gratuity)
By your own admission, the cops used to get the pension cream.
Demonstrably, run of the mill TD, did miles better than the cop so we can figure that he is doing miles and miles better than the civil servant which was the point that I was querying.
Fair enough. My point is that when you take the hours, responsibility and lack of job security into account politicians pensions are a necessity unless we want to be ruled by people who have never worked in the real economy and the idle rich.
Day One of Return to Level 3:- Mrs Lep had her usual first communication of the day with her mobile phone before first light at 6.00am. "Penneys are opening" were her first words Tuesday followed by "We're going there immediately after breakfast, there'll be a queue." "What's this 'We' business" says I and I found myself dutifully driving towards the Wilton Shopping Centre in the pitch darkness of the 7.30 Tuesday morning. Approaching the Kinsale Road Roundabout we encountered one of our cherished youth riding a battery powered scooter with no light on the back and not even wearing a high-viz jacket. I don't know how that battery-scooter invisible jockey ever arrived at the intended destination. Perhaps it was Penneys too?
Having alighted at the Wilton Hilton (Cork University Maternity Hospital) my passenger armed with her mini flask of tea (Barrys natch!) and pop-of-colour scarf with matching tasseled hat marched stoically towards Penneys to form the Queue-of-One. After returning home I decided to take the bus to Cork's city centre during the quieter mid morning. Nearly every shop had a non self distancing queue outside. Chin masks were worn by most to ensure if they received infection it wouldn't be through the chin. They seemed unaware that most infections occur through the mouth and nose. which I reckon they thought improved their looks if nothing else. Barbers, hairdressers, department stores, nail sculpting outlets, beauty salons, boutiques had the larger queues. I could get in nowhere without queueing so I headed for Dealz and MrPrice both of which had queues of non self distancing Corporal Clotts. A new low for me, I never thought I'd find myself queueing outside Dealz and MrPrice so I headed home, but now the buses were occupied by people who thought the "Don't Sit Here" sign was an invitation for sitting and piled in again wearing chin masks.
The nightly RTE television news had cameras and microphones in various locations in Cork and were not short of interviewees dying for their moment of fame. One advised "we have half normality" and others were glad this pandemic is nearly over and one thought the nation demanded full view of her nose. Most interviewees were of the older generation and it suddenly it dawned on me these are the parents of Cork people who refuse to use indicators when driving on roundabouts and those who ride invisibly on battery powered scooters in total darkness.
I regret we'll pay the Covid price of this stupidity during January 2021 and perhaps the battery scooter rider well before then!
Having alighted at the Wilton Hilton (Cork University Maternity Hospital) my passenger armed with her mini flask of tea (Barrys natch!) and pop-of-colour scarf with matching tasseled hat marched stoically towards Penneys to form the Queue-of-One. After returning home I decided to take the bus to Cork's city centre during the quieter mid morning. Nearly every shop had a non self distancing queue outside. Chin masks were worn by most to ensure if they received infection it wouldn't be through the chin. They seemed unaware that most infections occur through the mouth and nose. which I reckon they thought improved their looks if nothing else. Barbers, hairdressers, department stores, nail sculpting outlets, beauty salons, boutiques had the larger queues. I could get in nowhere without queueing so I headed for Dealz and MrPrice both of which had queues of non self distancing Corporal Clotts. A new low for me, I never thought I'd find myself queueing outside Dealz and MrPrice so I headed home, but now the buses were occupied by people who thought the "Don't Sit Here" sign was an invitation for sitting and piled in again wearing chin masks.
The nightly RTE television news had cameras and microphones in various locations in Cork and were not short of interviewees dying for their moment of fame. One advised "we have half normality" and others were glad this pandemic is nearly over and one thought the nation demanded full view of her nose. Most interviewees were of the older generation and it suddenly it dawned on me these are the parents of Cork people who refuse to use indicators when driving on roundabouts and those who ride invisibly on battery powered scooters in total darkness.
I regret we'll pay the Covid price of this stupidity during January 2021 and perhaps the battery scooter rider well before then!
Like yourself Leper , returning to Level 3 with a renewed sense of optimism and hope.
A vaccine to be rolled out soon hopefully, Waterford in an All Ireland and Christmas nearly upon us.
After 14 years on a Bank of Ireland defined pension supplementary income is on the way next week in the form of the contributory OAP , the first payment of which coincides with the bonus Christmas payment - double joy !
I intend to , if spared and things return to some normality , share this largess with the community as a whole - particularly publicans , bookies , restaurants, hotels , shops and travel agents and charities.
I must mentally draft my letter to my local TD in time for the next budget bemoaning the meagre increase ( or no increase ) in the OAP - that’s apparently what’s expected of us .
The downside is a friend pointed out that I will start shouting at the TV and mistaking the doorbell and phone ringing on the TV for my own doorbell and. phone !
Thanks for the tip about teenagers on scooters , I’ll add that to my Pensioner’s list of things to be enraged about.
A vaccine to be rolled out soon hopefully, Waterford in an All Ireland and Christmas nearly upon us.
After 14 years on a Bank of Ireland defined pension supplementary income is on the way next week in the form of the contributory OAP , the first payment of which coincides with the bonus Christmas payment - double joy !
I intend to , if spared and things return to some normality , share this largess with the community as a whole - particularly publicans , bookies , restaurants, hotels , shops and travel agents and charities.
I must mentally draft my letter to my local TD in time for the next budget bemoaning the meagre increase ( or no increase ) in the OAP - that’s apparently what’s expected of us .
The downside is a friend pointed out that I will start shouting at the TV and mistaking the doorbell and phone ringing on the TV for my own doorbell and. phone !
Thanks for the tip about teenagers on scooters , I’ll add that to my Pensioner’s list of things to be enraged about.
The risk of dying from Covid in Ireland is 0.0004 and symptoms are mild for 80% of people. Imagine a disease so catastrophic that you need a test to tell you you have it. Pretty sure I know when I have the flu !
Meanwhile 2000 people are walking around with undiagnosed cancers because of cancelled screenings.
Nope, you don't know when you have the flu necessarily. Asymptomatic & mild flu is an established concept also.
What you thought was a cold may have been a mild flu, a strain similar to one you previously encountered.
Imagine a disease so catastrophic that you need a test to tell you you have it?
And cancer screenings have resumed though there is a backlog from spring. One of the reasons for the restrictions over past few months has been to ensure hospitals can continue with routine operations. In some other countries at the moment, to free up capacity as we did in spring, routine procedures have been cancelled.
More than 300,000 cancer screenings delayed due to Covid crisis
The pandemic forced the suspension of services and reduced screening capacity
www.irishexaminer.com
In this scenario, think of the covid test as screening to try to detect it before you spread it to someone for which it could be 'catastrophic'.
Paul O Mahoney
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I love when people simply use an overall average to justify a false narrative, it would be better if the data for each subset of our population was used, but I doubt that's going to happen.
Then let's use cancer to further the narrative, well undiagnosed cancer is the same every year as the majority people don't go for or do anything about getting tested. We lose more people to cancer due to indifference than we do if we weren't screening.
A few years ago , about 4/5 the HSE along with the ICS sent out "poo sample" kits to test for bowel cancer, less than 35% returned them and the majority of those who did were survivors. Bowel cancer has a 90% plus survival rate.
As a survivor it really annoys me that people who haven't the first clue about the statistics or what the disease is, simply trot it out to justify an irrelevant and often dangerous view, and pretend to actually care about cancer patients.
Paul O Mahoney
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I hope Waterford do it , as a Corkman I'll be behind ye......
Nope, you don't know when you have the flu necessarily. Asymptomatic & mild flu is an established concept also.
What you thought was a cold may have been a mild flu, a strain similar to one you previously encountered.
Imagine a disease so catastrophic that you need a test to tell you you have it?
And cancer screenings have resumed though there is a backlog from spring. One of the reasons for the restrictions over past few months has been to ensure hospitals can continue with routine operations. In some other countries at the moment, to free up capacity as we did in spring, routine procedures have been cancelled.
More than 300,000 cancer screenings delayed due to Covid crisis
The pandemic forced the suspension of services and reduced screening capacity
In this scenario, think of the covid test as screening to try to detect it before you spread it to someone for which it could be 'catastrophic'.
The pertinent point is that the vast majority of people will walk away unscathed from Covid. Untreated they won't from cancer.
Can you spare me the patronising drivel? You knock my secondary statistic and then quote secondary data yourself. The likes of you should stop assuming that the rest of us cant do basic research or read what the likes of Professor Donal Brennan, Dr Risterard O Laoide or Professor Jack Lambert, to mention just three, have to say.
I'm well capable of reading and interpreting secondary statistics, and conducting primary research if needs be but thanks for your concern.
The notion that there are no consequences to covid being the only show in town is farcical.
Fwiw my father died of pancreatic cancer and my mother survive bowel cancer after extensive treatment. The notion that that makes me more qualified to comment on secondary statistics is embarrassing.
Thank you Paul , much appreciated.
I still remember getting a half day when the Waterford All Ireland winning team of 1959 visited St Declan’s national school hopefully another good day is in the offing
Cancer isn't an infectious disease.
Ebola has a case fatality rate of 90%.
There's a reason why covid has had a huge impact globally and ebola did not - how infectious it is.
So to merely look at what % of people will survive something untreated entirely misses the threat that covid represents to public health systems.
The low covid fatality rate here is a function of the restrictions deployed to keep the case count down, and in spring, the increase in hospital capacity brought about by the cancellation of other routine operations, including unfortunately screenings.
Those screenings have now been reinstated.
And surely the last thing someone undergoing treatment for cancer needs is to contract covid, the chances of which would be greatly increased if covid is allowed to become prevalent in the community.
So I don't see how your current comments are in any way pertinent to the conversation in December 2020.