Ireland the most English country in the World

[Duke of Marmalade]

I drove through Wales lately and its full of bi-linugal signs, and there are many in Scotland I believe.

Wales has a far higher number of first language Gaelic speakers than Ireland. Scotland also, though not so much as Wales. And as for Norn Iron, the number of first language Gaelic speakers could be counted on the fingers of aon lamh.

 

[Betsy Og]

Not sure Scotland has many gaelic speakers, maybe on the Western Isles. Anyway, the DUP line is just the remnants of not wanting catholics about the place, I've no problem with the heat being turned on them.

I'm not sure where everyone else is encountering all these cultural warriors, striking them down with their rabid Irishness. TG4 means RTE doesnt seem to do as much of the gaeilge tokenism as in the past. TG4 is fairly accessible (as much as it can be), usually subtitles etc.

I think, a bit like the GAA haters that emerge from time to time, there seems to be a dark memory of a Christian Brother or a coach who was a villain, and that colours the whole thing forevermore. There isn't much to hate about Irish, maybe it could've been taught better, maybe you'd prefer not a cent to be spent on it, but as a language it is not the enemy of anyone. Irish language, sport & music are things that make us distinctive & are worth preserving.

 

[TheBigShort]

There isn't much to hate about Irish, maybe it could've been taught better, maybe you'd prefer not a cent to be spent on it, but as a language it is not the enemy of anyone. Irish language, sport & music are things that make us distinctive & are worth preserving.

Couldn't agree more.

I was of the view that this topic was to laud our English speaking culture, being top of the class and all that?
However, with repeated references to Gregory Campbell's belittling of the language and dismissive comments as to how many people speak Irish, it appears that the undertone of this topic is of the bigoted Campbell mindset.

Perhaps his Dukeness could clarify, for what purpose is this topic?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Perhaps his Dukeness could clarify, for what purpose is this topic?

Oh, I was just shooting the breeze. That French taxi driver seemed almost surprised that as an Irish man I would parler en Anglais. Imagine his surprise if he were to learn that we were the most Anglais folk on planet Earth.
Yes, it has been difficult to avoid letting off steam at the "force it down your throat" brigade.
I love this bit of Campbellism from Fintan O'Toole.
Amhran na bhFiann:

"Sinead feigned her fall.
A toffee girl, a gay run.
Binned. This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language. Loo.
Hard tune the hen-egg ruined."

 

[Purple]

Oh, I was just shooting the breeze.

You have exposed yourself as a "not a proper Irishman".
Do you support the GAA and speak Irish? If not then you are a West-Brit.
It used to be "Going to Mass on Sunday, supporting the GAA and speaking Irish fluently, especially to people you know can't speak it very well" but going to mass is optional now, though if you are a Protestant your Irishness is still questionable.

To be a proper urban Irish person you have to have given your children Irish names (even if you have a double barreled surname) and drive them to the Gaelscoil in your Landrover. You also need to talk about how private schools are all bad even though you can achieve the same sort of social aparthite by sending them to an all Irish school.

 

[Purple]

I played Gaelic Football in school as well, though I always preferred Hurling (and still do).
I was no good at Irish but never hated it. Indeed I like the language, I just have a problem with the attitude of some of those who speak it.

I like the fact that Ireland is an open liberal republic which is welcoming to minorities and immigrants. I don't like the implication that those who don't speak Irish are not as Irish as those who do.

 

[Delboy]

We haven't had a 'bash the Irish language' thread in a while. Good to see the usual heads haven't lost their mojo on that front.
Lean ar aghaidh

 

[Purple]

We haven't had a 'bash the Irish language' thread in a while. Good to see the usual heads haven't lost their mojo on that front.
Lean ar aghaidh

I don't see anyone bashing the Irish language on this thread, just a smug minority of those who speak it.

 

[Betsy Og]

I don't see anyone bashing the Irish language on this thread, just a snug minority of those who speak it.

Ah now.... was there not a "curry me yoghurt" moment? And various bemoaning of cultural supremacists, but no examples of same....though I know what you mean.......ta siad i gach ait.......

 

[Sophrosyne]

I love this bit of Campbellism from Fintan O'Toole.
Amhran na bhFiann:

"Sinead feigned her fall.
A toffee girl, a gay run.
Binned. This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language. Loo.
Hard tune the hen-egg ruined."

I don't see anyone bashing the Irish language on this thread, just a snug minority of those who speak it.

 

[joe sod]

if you spend alot of time in australia or canada you will realise how close our culture is to the english and the similarities. Australians and canadians even though they still have queen as head of state are actually more different to the english than we are. We drink tea like the english ( even though more people drink coffee now but we are still the biggest tea drinkers in the world). Our accent is often mistaken for scottish, or colloqial english accent. We use words like "lorry" etc whereas canadians and aussies are more american using "truck". We drive on the left hand side of the road , same as english (although aussies do aswell), while almost everyone else drives on the right. We drink pints like the english whereas the aussies drink "skooners" and canadians drink american measures. We are much more interseted in premiership football than they are. I cant think of other things now but there are many more

 

[Ceist Beag]

I don't see anyone bashing the Irish language on this thread

You don't? I think Betsy and Sophrosyne have already reminded you...

just a snug minority of those who speak it.

Is this a typo - did you mean smug? If not I don't understand what you're saying but if you're saying you only see a smug minority of those who speak it on this thread then I really think you need to point out an example Purple. I get that you have a chip on your shoulder due to bad experiences but you really need to be a bit more open minded and allow for the possibility that the vast majority of Irish speakers in this country are not smug and do not look down on those who cannot speak the language. I am a native Irish speaker but I absolutely do not think that makes me any more Irish than those who cannot speak the language and my experience is that the vast majority of those I know who speak the language would be of the same view (I do know a small few who would fit your description but in any grouping of people there will be a few like that).

if you spend alot of time in australia or canada you will realise how close our culture is to the english and the similarities. Australians and canadians even though they still have queen as head of state are actually more different to the english than we are. We drink tea like the english ( even though more people drink coffee now but we are still the biggest tea drinkers in the world). Our accent is often mistaken for scottish, or colloqial english accent. We use words like "lorry" etc whereas canadians and aussies are more american using "truck". We drive on the left hand side of the road , same as english (although aussies do aswell), while almost everyone else drives on the right. We drink pints like the english whereas the aussies drink "skooners" and canadians drink american measures. We are much more interseted in premiership football than they are. I cant think of other things now but there are many more

I'm not sure what your point is here Joe - we live next door to England so isn't it pointing out the bleeding obvious that we will be closer in culture to them than a country on the other side of the world or to suggest that similarly Canadians are a lot more like their immediate neighbour than a country across the ocean?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

You don't? I think Betsy and Sophrosyne have already reminded you...

I am a native Irish speaker but I absolutely do not think that makes me any more Irish than those who cannot speak the language and my experience is that the vast majority of those I know who speak the language would be of the same view

Ceist, I apologise for any offence that I may have caused you, none intended, honestly.
But it must make you sad to know that the majority of people in NI see the Irish language as a threat. And can you blame them? Ever see an Assembly debate? The Shinners pepper their contributions with gaelic even more so than in the Dail, even though Michelle has only a cupla focail. Why do they do that? Is it because a significant part of the TV audience would not understand English? Is it that they wish to persuade those on the opposite benches to embrace the language? Not at all. It is clear sectarian weaponisation. Easy for us to smugly sneer at Gregory Campbell as a bigot. He's no worse than the Shinners.

 

[Ceist Beag]

No offence taken Duke, I'm not that easily offended! I was merely pointing out the inaccuracy of the statement made by Purple.

 

[Delboy]

'My argument is in trouble so I'll quickly deflect to the basket case that is the North for some desperate backup'

The 'majority' in NI as you call them, see everything as a threat that isn't painted red, white and blue. They feel insecure because deep down they know they have a link to the UK that most people over there don't care about, whilst also knowing that most people on this island would rather see the back of them.
But we're going off topic here...tally ho with the Gaeilge bashing

 

[Purple]

Is this a typo - did you mean smug? If not I don't understand what you're saying but if you're saying you only see a smug minority of those who speak it on this thread then I really think you need to point out an example Purple. I get that you have a chip on your shoulder due to bad experiences but you really need to be a bit more open minded and allow for the possibility that the vast majority of Irish speakers in this country are not smug and do not look down on those who cannot speak the language. I am a native Irish speaker but I absolutely do not think that makes me any more Irish than those who cannot speak the language and my experience is that the vast majority of those I know who speak the language would be of the same view (I do know a small few who would fit your description but in any grouping of people there will be a few like that).

Yep, it was a typo.
I referred to a minority of people who speak the language being smug. I didn't aim that at those posting here.
It seems you agree with me as you say that you do know a small few who fit that description.

What's your view of the bilingual signage in Dingle (Daingean Uí Chúis) being removed and replaced with the Irish only signs?

 

[Ceist Beag]

Purple there will always be a small few in any group who are shall we say extreme in their views. I don't see that as something that needs to be brought up every time the language is being discussed though! Can we not discuss the language without referring to the minority?
I agree with you on the signage in Dingle, it's clearly aimed at tourism but again I'm not sure it's something that needs to be discussed in this thread?

 

[Betsy Og]

But it must make you sad to know that the majority of people in NI see the Irish language as a threat. It is clear sectarian weaponisation.

Does it make us sad?...hmmm...not as such, if they persist with the siege that's their problem, its hardly a reason to exterminate the language. They see nationalists/catholics as a threat too ..... you can see where this is going...

As for the Shinners, I'd have no problem in all assembly business being conducted in english, I agree that carry on is mischevious nonsense that does the language a disservice because as you say it is being used to divide. However that does not mean that the language should not be supported. Are nationalists meant to be happy with being 'tolerated'?, we're not long away from a nationalist majority within the 6 counties, obviously a huge majority on the island. The union is crumbling, I wouldn't be at all surprised if an Indy2 got carried in Scotland. So I think the Unionist community might be as well off checking which way the wind is blowing and adopting a more "why can't we all get along" approach - granted SF dont make it easy but history does not suggest that progressiveness and generosity will ever spontaneously emerge from the Unionist political sphere. Maybe they should try "Killing United Ireland with Kindness", or perhaps acknowledge that they would probably find it more palatable to be a smaller minority in a secular modern state (dare we say it a very England-like state in a United Ireland), than a bare minority in a SF bearpit - of course while NI exists they'll always be in power sharing, and what a great fist they're making of that ....... Lovely warm sheds up there though it has to said...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

we're not long away from a nationalist majority within the 6 counties

21% want a United Ireland according to . So you may be correct, but clearly nationalism does not equate with United Irelandism so your conclusion that "the union is crumbling" is a non sequitur (interesting I had to resort to Latin to make that point, would Irish be more efficient is this instance, Ceist?)
But I empathise with the thrust of your post. Luckily that poll assures us that a vote for a United Ireland is as remote as France opting to be a German province for I shudder to contemplate the chaos that would result from a 50% + 1 referendum for a UI.
As owner of this Topic I am conscious of a danger that it will do a Bitcoin fork into Letting off Steam.

 

[Purple]

I agree with you on the signage in Dingle, it's clearly aimed at tourism but again I'm not sure it's something that needs to be discussed in this thread?

How is removing the language that most tourists speak from the signs make it more tourist friendly?
It is, in my opinion, a good example of the cultural superiority complex that some Irish speakers have.
I'd say it's a minority but not a tiny one.