Key Post Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

Rather than take the promoters words at face value, I think it would be prudent before investing in tree farming via funds to check out the section on Returns from the Irish Farm Forest web site and check some of the references given: This says: Returns are expressed as real rates of return over and above the rate of inflation. There is a lack of published information on returns from investment in forestry in Ireland. Growing for the Future - A Strategic Plan for the Forestry Sector in Ireland estimated the real rate of return from forestry (Sitka spruce) as 5% including land cost and exclusive of grants and subsidies. Irish Forestry Unit Trust (IFUT) estimates the return from forestry as being within the range of 5% to 7%. At a conference on forestry investment organised by the Irish Forestry Industry Chain (IFIC), most speakers indicated returns in the region of 5 to 7% with the proviso that these could be higher if there was no land cost associated with the investment. Thus farmers planting their own land could expect significantly higher returns.
In summary returns are very much dependent on a combination of factors but most analysts indicate rates of return in the region of 5% to 7%. Returns are significantly higher where the investment does not require the purchase of land.
mask said:
Re: Investing in American ReIT s . What advantages do you see in investing in these funds rather than an ETF .?
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Mask: I think AAM’s rules preclude comment on specific shares (i.e. PCL and RYN), but the iShares forestry ETF contains the shares of companies that are involved in timber processing and downstream activities as opposed to forestry, i.e. they are standard industrial companies, and as such, their shares are exposed to general stock market volatility: http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=PCL&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=wood.l So if you want to invest in timber as an asset class, direct investment in forestry companies should be considered. If a pure forestry ETF came out I’d switch to it, and I’d also keep an eye out for competition from forestry companies from Canada, Russia and (maybe) South America.
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

why do i get the feeling I'm just reading an advert from this company IFS, who is Declan Kennedy, he's not listed as a director of this private business anyway?

can someone give me an independent summary?
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

Flanny said:
the Plum Creek investment looks less than a safe bet
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I wasn’t recommending any particular timber company or discussing its shares. The point was that investing in ‘pure timber’ companies gives you exposure to the value of timber. Investing in the iShares forestry ETF gives you exposure to the value of timber but also exposure to the value of industrial companies that process timber. So, if you buy the ETF you are taking on exposure to non-timber and market risk. The link to Yahoo just shows that the value of the iShares forestry ETF has declined recently relative to the value of timber in line with the general decline of share values due to its exposure to market risk, i.e: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?t=1y&s=PCL&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=wood.l&c=%5EGSPC (PCL was used as a proxy for timber values, and not a recommendation to buy.)
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

PMU,

you seem to know your stuff- have you any idea what the return on forestry is projected at for farmers, receiving the new premia (i.e. at farmers rates) in Ireland going forward??
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

Hi Im new to this I am interested in forestry investments I am however a little concerned with this one as it is quite clearly stated that the fund relies heavily on EU grants and irish grants to support it payiong out the predicted returns.
What happens if all the grants are pulled because Ireland does not manage to plant enough trees to support the EU funding as this report already exsplains is happening
Also a lot of the grants are already being pulled because of this you can read this here > Also I understand that some of the Directors of the Irish Forestry Fund/s are trying to get the govenment to change there stance on the grants to account for this as they recently lobbied to get the ammount of grants changed so that this would work over the long term.
I fancy this could be a bad case of ignorance not to forsee that this grant may (and will) change???
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

I see what you're saying Sebina, even while the govmnt are falling a long way short of their own afforestation targets they are considering withholding/reviewing grants on roads and thinnings. Silly really cos these are such a long term investment that any prudent investor/farmer has to feel safe with the present grant scheme and that it will really only revise upwards.
 
Re: Key Post: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

www.irish-forestry.ie charge €50/month to advertise shares, which I think is excessive.

As a shareholder myself, I thought Id offer an alternative. You can now offer your shares for sale free of charge on my website www.irishforestryshares.com.

Hopefully this will help bring buyers and sellers together and allow sellers to sell shares that are some years from maturity. Also it should help people to buy into funds that are closer to maturity, rather than having invest in a new fund, and wait ten years for a return.

If you want to advertise your shares, email me at info@irishforestryshares.com
 
Re: Key Post 12-04-2002: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

By the way IFS are also partners with a group who have also come up for criticism on ask about money here > www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=354925 and here > www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=411548 called Helvetia Wealth based offshore who have been selling investments guaranteed at 8% per annum blatantly flouting the regulators laws on advertisement.
Together IFS and Helvetia Wealth are selling shares in there international forestry fund.
 
Re: Key Post 12-04-2002: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

Help us out please with some links that allow us to find out more about the above. Thanks.
 
Re: Key Post 12-04-2002: Investment in Irish Forestry Funds

coments on aaM > Helvetia Wealth ?

You can search the two company’s websites these supply the details of the partnership

IFS asset Managers http://www.ifsam.ie/

Helvetia Wealth / IFS Asset Managers International forestry fund http://www.forestry-fund.com/

I posted this in the room regarding Helvetia Wealth but it should provide you with a number of links regarding IFS asset managers and there partners in the international forestry fund. This link > [broken link removed] also draws some conclusions between FSW securities and Helvetia Wealth AG.

Mark Griffiths is the sales director of Helvetia Wealth and also apparently worked for FSW Europe there is another link here that shows Mark Griffiths replying in the Forum> [broken link removed]

Tony Hetherington who works on the FSA consumer panel also writes for a number of publications in the UK and warned about FSW Europe here > http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing/article.html?in_article_id=414037&in_page_id=166 this outfit was regulated in Switzerland and sold primarily to the UK and Ireland.

From what I understand in regards to Helvetia Wealth from the Independent here> they are also originally Swiss (not based in Liechtenstein ) there website is in English and not German?

And they also say that 60% of there clients come from Ireland here > http://www.finance-magazine.com/sup...tments_for_hnwis/display_article.php?aid=8095 I would have serious hesitations with what appears to be connections with Switzerland, FSW Europe and the staff who worked there, I would also like to know more about IFS asset managers partnership for there international forestry fund with this crowd?
 
and even then, it isn't obvious that the returns will be readily available to the public
 
In certain parts of this country there is a shortage of timber at present due to processing firms having to fulfill large export orders. Therefore if IFS were to be lucky they could obtain a price for felled timber which is not realistic to the current market price.

Having read their literature and met and spoken with some top brass from the company, I would be very hesitant in investing in their funds. It does appear that many corporates operating in the growth sectors have chosen Ireland especially to market and get Irish investors on board.

'Do your own research', but take on board the comments from others. It is hard enough making it without blowing it away.
 
mercman said:
'Do your own research', but take on board the comments from others. It is hard enough making it without blowing it away.
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Yes, I agree. I am doing my own research at present but am awaiting to find out how these funds perform, when the first of their products matures in 2010. Just wondering when.
 
Folks

Good news. Your money is in safe hands.

Bertie Ahern to become Chairman of the International Forestry Fund

I wonder does he personally guarantee the guaranteed returns from Helvetia as well.

This is from the Forestry Fund website to clarify the various organisations involved:
The International Forestry Fund is a joint venture between Helvetia Wealth A.G. and IFS Asset Managers Limited.


Helvetia Wealth is the fastest growing financial services provider in Europe and its core business is private banking and asset management. Working with top tier banking partners it uses an open architecture model and sits at the centre of this exclusive network. It provides investment allocation strategies across all asset classes for its sophisticated private and institutional client base.


Helvetia Wealth is the Investment Fund Manager and Distributor of the International Forestry Fund and has 1.1 billion Swiss francs asset under management following a number of very successful acquisitions in the UK, Germany and Ireland.

Helvetia Wealth head office is in Zurich and the Company has offices in Berlin, Dublin, Glasgow, Hamburg, Kilkenny, Liechtenstein, Mauritius and London.


IFS Asset Managers Limited was established in Dublin in 1997 and specializes in forestry asset management. It currently manages in excess of €100 million of forestry assets on behalf of 18,000 private and corporate clients in Ireland and has a successful track record of generating solid returns over the last thirteen years from its series of Irish Forestry Funds. IFS is the Forest Asset Manager to the International Forestry Fund.


The International Forestry Fund has a target annual growth rate of between 7% to 10% which will be achieved through a strategy of risk-reduction and diversification.
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any sign of this fund getting cashed up? its matured earlier this year so waiting a while now, hope berty hasn't got his hands in the till..
 
Well Bertie checked every tree in North Dublin and found nothing so hope there are no funds tied up in the trees in North Dublin
 
I had a look at the irish-forestry.ie website where they publish the accounts for their various funds, including the ones that have matured. I note that the assets of the first Forestry Investment plan were acquired by the International Forestry Fund (i.e. by another company controlled by the directors). The returns posted were over 80% gross (about 6.4% per annum). While this isn't a bad return it is "interesting", to say the least, that the first fund to mature was acquired by one of the company's another fund, and in fact this has been one of my fears about these investments for some time now. As the first fund to mature, it would naturally be in the company's general interest to report good returns for investors. Many newspapers seem to have joined in the celebrations without noticing who acquired the assets, or at the transparency of the whole sales process for same.

The company does not appear to be as forthcoming about the other two funds that have matured, the second and third forestry investment plans as there are no details on the website as to how they were wound up. The Irish Times reported earlier this year, however, that assets of the third Forestry Investment Plan were acquired by an Austrian investor. This time, the gross return to investors was only 46.6%, according to the same report. So the returns were only around half what was returned by the first forestry investment plan in 2010.

[broken link removed]

No doubt the financial crisis is to blame for the general lack of enthusiasm for these assets generally. Investors in the various funds (and I am one of them) will have noticed this year that the fund managers no longer calculate the approximate value of the investor's shares, as they had in the past.

Make of all that what you will.
 
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