Nice one Jeff! Seems to me that you're dangling a big hook and reeling in a lot of fish. If you really want to wind them up why not sling in a comment about women drivers and whether they should be banned from the roads?
If I see another bloody soccer mom driving a big SUV (XC90)...............
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Nice one Jeff! Seems to me that you're dangling a big hook and reeling in a lot of fish. If you really want to wind them up why not sling in a comment about women drivers and whether they should be banned from the roads?
SUVs annoy me as well but before we get into women drivers, I've seen loads of men driving them as well. I do find them intimidating on the road, it just seems to me that SUV drivers are more aggressive, maybe because it is a larger vehicle, either way I dislike it when I come round a bend and am confronted with an SUV that I have to dodge or squeeze past.
At least people in lorries and vans have them for some commercial reason, I think the annoying thing about SUVs is that they were designed for off road driving and there's no good reason to have them otherwise.
I know people have them for safety reasons but citing that reason is really giving the finger to the rest of us in small cars; i.e. you have an SUV so that if you are a collision with a car your SUV will 'win out' and totally wreck the other car and its occupant most likely.
I do think they are dangerous in school car parks as well with small kids running around. The wheels of one of them is taller than a small child no problem. I don't think they should be allowed anywhere near a school. Can't stand them I have to say.
At least people in lorries and vans have them for some commercial reason, I think the annoying thing about SUVs is that they were designed for off road driving and there's no good reason to have them otherwise.
I know people have them for safety reasons but citing that reason is really giving the finger to the rest of us in small cars; i.e. you have an SUV so that if you are a collision with a car your SUV will 'win out' and totally wreck the other car and its occupant most likely.
I do think they are dangerous in school car parks as well with small kids running around. The wheels of one of them is taller than a small child no problem. I don't think they should be allowed anywhere near a school. Can't stand them I have to say.
I agree, I do a lot of driving and find men in SUV’s to be the most aggressive (drive too fast, too close and lane jump).
Good point.
This is a very important point and the “but I’m a good driver” line used by SUV drivers just doesn’t stand up. A gob****e in an SUV is more dangerous than a gob****e in a Micra. That’s the bottom line.
Another good point.
G
Guest111
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I think people buy these cars because they feel their families will be safer in them. Personally I don't like jeeps/SUV's but if myself and my partner had kids we would certainly get her an SUV. Partly as they can carry all the bits and bobs associated with kids, partly because I don't trust other road users and partly for the comfort factor.
I'm not sure verbal attacks on SUV drivers serve any purpose other than to create conflict where there's no need.
I'm not sure verbal attacks on SUV drivers serve any purpose other than to create conflict where there's no need.
To be honest I haven't seen any great evidence that SUV drivers are any more aggressive than any other. Also with regards their choice in car it is a bit extreme to suggest that they have issues regarding feeling insecure in themselves etc. People buy big expensive SUV's that are not totally necessary and people also buy big expensive homes that suit well beyond their needs, but the choice is theirs and that is the way it should be. This moral high ground about SUVs being more dangerous than other vehicles for passengers etc doesn't stand in my opinion it always comes back to the driver. It would be interesting to see what percentages of SUVs are connected to fatal accidents per annum.
I don't drive one but I do think there is more than a hint of jealosy attached to any rant held against them and their drivers
I don't drive one but I do think there is more than a hint of jealosy attached to any rant held against them and their drivers
I very much agree - if people want a big ass car then let them off - once they can drive it though!
ubiquitous
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Does it? I think its pretty conclusive that bull bars on the front of jeeps, SUVs etc are inherently more dangerous to pedestrians, cyclists and other road users, that the front bumper of a conventional car or van.
And not just that, due to the the weight of the SUV, some have had the tendancy, on rolling over, to crush the cab, killing the occupants
G
gonk
Guest
They are and there is now a ban on bull bars being fitted as original equipment by car makers in the EU.
For some unknown reason, however, bull bars themselves are not banned. So, they can still be retrofitted and owners of vehicles fitted with them (which include ordinary vans, not just 4x4s) do not have to remove them.
Anyone who continues to drive with bull bars is an idiot - but by my observation anyway most 4x4s (including mine) don't have them.
That said, it is true that it is a higher risk of serious injury or death for a pedestrian to be hit by a 4x4 than an "ordinary car". But that begs the question what is an "ordinary car". Presumably, for example, being hit by a heavier saloon car like a Mercedes is worse than being hit by a Micra - do we ban all cars over a certain weight?
For City Driving I think it would be no harm to discourage anyone from driving SUVs or large executive saloons. SUVs are ok if you intend pulling a trailer or horsebox and require them in the countryside / "off road". What good are they stuck in gridlock or doing the school run? the cost of fuel must be v high.
G
gonk
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What good is any car stuck in gridlock? As has already been pointed out, 4x4s do not take up significantly more road space than "ordinary" cars. If you could magically replace every 4x4 in Ireland with a Micra or a Starlet overnight, you'd still have traffic jams.
Fuel consumption is another red herring. People have latched onto the concept of "gas-guzzling SUVs" from the States, where engine sizes are much bigger (5 litres plus wouldn't be unusual) and diesel much less common than here. My 2.5 litre diesel 4x4 does about 30mpg, or 35mpg on a long run. Not great, I know, but better than a lot of "ordinary" cars.
If the SUV bashers got their way and they were all banned, they would be sorely disappointed at the traffic and environmental difference it made - little or none.
The much shortened version of my view -
They are fashion accessories/ status symbols. (you simply have to do something, darling - very ordinary people are driving Beemers & Mercs these days - how does one stand out?). There are less intrusive vehicles offering good safety standards & user-friendliness.
Non SUV owners dislike them because they tend, in many cases, to be poorly driven & parked.The effect is more pronounced than with a saloon car. They cause visual obstruction at junctions & are generally "unfriendly" to other road users. A Merc bumper may break your shin, an SUV bumper may break you in half.
They seem particularly popular in Ireland. Visible "status" is considered very important with a section of the population.
Paris has banned them, other cities may follow.
Being the ingenious people they are, the Irish will soon a find way around any limitations such as restricting ownership to farmers.
Like all fashion accessories, they will eventually go away.
Just try not to get hit by one in the meantime!
They are fashion accessories/ status symbols. (you simply have to do something, darling - very ordinary people are driving Beemers & Mercs these days - how does one stand out?). There are less intrusive vehicles offering good safety standards & user-friendliness.
Non SUV owners dislike them because they tend, in many cases, to be poorly driven & parked.The effect is more pronounced than with a saloon car. They cause visual obstruction at junctions & are generally "unfriendly" to other road users. A Merc bumper may break your shin, an SUV bumper may break you in half.
They seem particularly popular in Ireland. Visible "status" is considered very important with a section of the population.
Paris has banned them, other cities may follow.
Being the ingenious people they are, the Irish will soon a find way around any limitations such as restricting ownership to farmers.
Like all fashion accessories, they will eventually go away.
Just try not to get hit by one in the meantime!
G
gonk
Guest
True, but criticising them on bogus environmental and traffic congestion grounds has become even more fashionable.
What is the relevance of this statement, the rant is about SUV's, I don't think anyone is questioning the usefullness of bullbars. Yes they are dangerous and needless, but also off topic.
I still don't think there is enough cause to want to ban them even from cities.
Talk about a generalisation, I'm on the road every day in and out of the city and bad drivers are indeed on view every day, but they are definitely not confined to SUV's. We know what damage an SUV can do but what damage can actually be attributed to them.
GeneralZod
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I find SUV drivers are amongst the most aggressive drivers on the road, they're up there with white van man.
They tail gate and drive faster than most.
I think the "I'm alright Jack" attitude about coming off better in a crash if you're in a SUV is very selfish as it exposes other drivers to greater risk.
They tail gate and drive faster than most.
I think the "I'm alright Jack" attitude about coming off better in a crash if you're in a SUV is very selfish as it exposes other drivers to greater risk.
Re: SUV's
Shortcut to: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=environment
Shortcut to: http://lists.mutualaid.org/pipermail/sustainabletompkins/2007-March/001790.html
Shortcut to: http://www.wellfedworld.org/globalwarming.htm
Shortcut to: http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Eat_A_Steak_Warm_The_Planet_999.html
Shortcut to: http://www.massanimalrights.org/enviroflier.html
As if I would be guilty of pontificating.
Shortcut to: http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html
Shortcut to: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=environment
Shortcut to: http://lists.mutualaid.org/pipermail/sustainabletompkins/2007-March/001790.html
Shortcut to: http://www.wellfedworld.org/globalwarming.htm
Shortcut to: http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Eat_A_Steak_Warm_The_Planet_999.html
Shortcut to: http://www.massanimalrights.org/enviroflier.html
As if I would be guilty of pontificating.
I don't in any way feel jealosy toward those who drive them. I was given an XC90 while my car was being serviced and I hated it. It was like driving a van and if I want a van I'll buy one, not one pretending to be a car.
Sigh, here we go with the generalisations and authorative statements from people with a chip on their shoulder about 4x4s for whatever reason.
OK so, how about this - I find people have this misplaced notion that 4x4 drivers (doesn't seem to matter to these people if it's a SUV or a genuine commercial vehicle either) are "aggressive" and will overcompensate in their OWN aggressiveness when encountering them - eg. my husband (who uses our commercial 4x4 for work purposes) was driven off the road by a bint in a hatchback, she swerved aggressively into his lane, while being level with his door, and forced him to take the decision to mount the pedestrian-free footpath and hit a pole rather than risk a crash with said bint. She kept driving away from the scene while my husband had to assess the damage to our vehicle caused by aggressive hatchback driving. Hence - a 4x4 driver whos' driving is courteous to a fault, is literally run off the road by aggressive, ignorant, female hatchback driver. There's one anecdote to scupper your theory.
And "we" certainly do not drive faster than most - due to the vehicle being heavier, I am more aware of the need to be able to stop safely in an emergency and hence drive more slowly and conscientiously than I would if I were driving my car (when I say that, I don't mean I don't drive conscientiously when driving my car, but I am on extra high alert when driving the 4x4). Also the fact that you may have a load in the back of the 4x4 would mean you would drive more slowly to avoid over-braking and possibly dislodging the load.
I am female, but I am comfortable with safely reversing/parking larger or higher vehicles (perhaps due to learning initially to drive in Hiace/Transit vans, which were my father's work vehicles) but maybe I am the exception to the rule - I do agree that there is nothing more frustrating than seeing someone, male or female, trying to maneouver a vehicle they clearly are not able for, I often feel like pointing them in the direction of a smart car, which is about the size some people should be driving if they cannot manage simple maneouvering tasks. My own first car was a Nissan Micra, and trust me, I would far rather encounter me now in a 4x4 than me as a nervous learner teenager in a Micra!
As for the safety aspect - that did admittedly influence our decision to purchase. I was involved in an accident last year where I was rear-ended while sitting in traffic in my Peugeot 206, and the car crumpled to a concertina. The jeep in front of me, which my car also hit due to the force of the impact, hadn't even a scratch on the point of impact, so having been that innocent person sitting in the smaller car coming out of an accident caused by an idiot driver (I was struck by a car, incidentally, a station wagon style car), with back injuries and a completely written off car, I would most definitely choose to be the person in the 4x4 who is still alive after some other irresponsible driver causes me to be involved in an accident, rather than possibly the dead driver of a smaller car which crumpled to oblivion.
As an aside, I read that in a survey carried out in the states which assessed carbon "footprints" of 74 vehicles, the Toyota Prius (or pious as it's colloquially known) came out bottom of the pile in 74th place with the worst ratings for carbon emmisions from production to disposal, and the number 1 car for least emmissions was the Jeep Wrangler.
hmmmmmm..........
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But that's not the point. Would you rather meet a nervous learner in a Micra or a large 4X4?