Household Charge

blueband said:
in that case why dont they just take it at source now!.....oh i forgot they want us to 'opt in' you can bet they do!
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Who are they?

Most arguments I've seen would only be justified if FG & Labour were some king of unelected ruling elite who terrorised the country through some kind of private army and secret police squad.

Get a grip, we are not North Korea, we are a democracy and the people we have elected to represent us are the people making the decisions.

We're not even paying enough tax yet to cover our lifestyles. People forget we have free education, basic healthcare, an infrastructure to maintain, a safety net for older people and unemployed people, etc.

We're in a society, the alternative is anarchy. Good luck to you if you want to choose anarchy.
 
DerKaiser said:
Who are they?

Most arguments I've seen would only be justified if FG & Labour were some king of unelected ruling elite who terrorised the country through some kind of private army and secret police squad.
we are not North Korea, we are a democracy and the people we have elected to represent us are the people making the decisions.
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We have ceded sovereignty to the EU and the IMF regardless of our democratically elected Govt,these nameless,faceless individuals now run Ireland,do not be under any illusion that this is not the case.

We were once citizens of a Republic now we are servants of the State.

This is going to be an exceptionally divisive issue,there is no point people taking high moral grounds on it,there are none.

This tax to allow one to live in their own bloody house really is the last straw for many,coupled with the realisation that all this money will be poured like cement from a mixer right in to the banks and junior debt holders is sickening.

There are other huge inefficiencies in how the public purse is wasted that need to be aggressively addressed before lumping this tax on our heads and until these are tackled I will not be paying one red cent of this tax.
 
Knuttell said:
We have ceded sovereignty to the EU and the IMF regardless of our democratically elected Govt,these nameless,faceless individuals now run Ireland,do not be under any illusion that this is not the case.

We were once citizens of a Republic now we are servants of the State.

This is going to be an exceptionally divisive issue,there is no point people taking high moral grounds on it,there are none.

This tax to allow one to live in their own bloody house really is the last straw for many,coupled with the realisation that all this money will be poured like cement from a mixer right in to the banks and junior debt holders is sickening.

There are other huge inefficiencies in how the public purse is wasted that need to be aggressively addressed before lumping this tax on our heads and until these are tackled I will not be paying one red cent of this tax.
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What do you think should happen before you would be willing to pay up?
 
Purple said:
What do you think should happen before you would be willing to pay up?
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Where do you start??

Social welfare payments need to be completely overhauled,this nonsense of refusing a job because it doesn't pay any where near as well as the dole is crazy.Why am I paying for unemployed people to be driving 10D cars and being in the pubs 3-4 nights a week?or turning down a job paying 35k because the dole with its menu of payments is worth more to them than the average industrial wage??

The Croke park agreement needs to be shredded,there is major savings to be made by having an efficient and streamlined CS/PS,its just not happening any where near as fast it should be and both are hemorrhaging tax payers money at a massive rate.

There are many many others...exhaust all these and then at the end of it go to the tax payer and say look there's no other option but a property tax...when that happens then I will pay a tax to live in my own house,until then its a bit like a friend living a flash lifestyle always looking for someone else to pony up so they can continue to buy the brand new Beemer but legging it to the jacks when its their round cos they haven't got a proverbial pot.
 
I note that the new property tax is supposed to cover "open spaces and leisure amenities"
The residence in our street has been paying €100 plus each, per year to hire a contractor to cut the grass in the street opposite our houses.
A councilor replied to my query and said that:

“The town council is a former town commission, and any household charges paid will go to central government, and not to the town Council or Cork county council. As a former town commission we are funded by a small percentage of the rates paid in the town.
 
DerKaiser said:
Who are they?
... king of unelected ruling elite who terrorised the country through some kind of private army and secret police squad.
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A German King talking about Kings and the unelected ... and with Mrs Merkel with her foot on our necks, and the German parliament reviewing our budgets!well I never....careful Derkaiser, you're open to a right bit of slagging on this one;)
 
As a nation Ireland has a 25% shortfall in terms of paying for our own spending.

At a very macro level we need to acknowldge that people outside this country are funding that shortfall and we need to pay them back.

At national level, the government we have elected have a mandate from us in deciding how to bridge that 25% shortfall and those outside the country have given us considerable breathing space in how we go about that.

The main tools open to the government include reforming/cutting the public service, cutting social welfare, cutting education, cutting health spending, raising spending taxes, raising income taxes and raising various other taxes.

If you acknowledge that some of these need to happen then you must accept that the elected government has chosen which of these to implement this year. There is no painless way, someone needs to pay. You might take the view that it should be done in another way, but another section of society will have a different view. I think unemployment benefit should be the first to get cut, but I'll still pay my tax hikes despite disagreeing with higher taxes rather than social welfare cuts.

If you don't acknowledge that some kind of action is needed when the outside world is subsidising our day to day spending to the tune of €11.5bn then I'm wasting my time!
 
DerKaiser said:
If you don't acknowledge that some kind of action is needed when the outside world is subsidising our day to day spending to the tune of €11.5bn then I'm wasting my time!
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I listed 2 exceptionally heavy drains on our taxes that need to be sorted immediately,its not rocket science,sort those out first before looking always to the middle/working class to subsidise everything in the form of massively ramped up taxes on those that keep the show running.
 
Knuttell said:
I listed 2 exceptionally heavy drains on our taxes that need to be sorted immediately,its not rocket science,sort those out first before looking always to the middle/working class to subsidise everything in the form of massively ramped up taxes on those that keep the show running.
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And I'd personally agree with you, but the government has made its decision to protect the rates of social welfare and the wages of the public service. From a selfish perspective, I'm not happy with that.

I'd also like to think I can hold an unbiased opinion, and from that perspective the burden borne by workers in the €35k+ income bracket is excessive given that they're likely to the the people who worked hard, paid large property related taxes in the past and have nothing to show for it but negative equity.

I'm just uneasy at expressing anger through non-compliance with taxation. Where would it end? Would you stop paying the TV licences because you don't watch RTE and believe it to be a horrendous waste of taxpayers money? If you owned shares would you stop declaring the dividends for tax because you have made large capital losses. If you owned a 2nd property in negative equity that you paid stamp duty on would you not pay the 2nd home tax or declare rental income (it seems wrong to pay taxes on something you've had nothing but losses from)?

Its all a bit murky and dangerous, there has to be a better way for middle income self-employed & PAYE workers to register their disgust at the choices that are being made. God knows the pensioners seem to get their way whenever anyone threatens to take anything off of them...
 
Hmm, I would not be inclined to consider a safe detention centre for children an "idiotic halfwit project". Sending juvenile offenders into adult prisons is far more idiotic.

The project was partially underway (the gates were erected in early 2011 according to the article so under the auspices of the previous government) they have decided to call a halt because the price tag was too high. Would you rather they continued on with the project at the price? From the article clearly this example is actually an example of the current government trying to reduce spending and provide value for any money that will be spent.
While there is no shortage of examples of innefficiencies and poor practice not being addressed, this is not the example you are looking for.
 
so-crates said:
While there is no shortage of examples of innefficiencies and poor practice not being addressed, this is not the example you are looking for.
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Of course you are correct spending 70k on a set of gates with no boundary fence into a site on which ground was never broken for a project that even in 2011 was clear as day there was no money for...definitely not an example of inefficient spending of the public purse.
 
Protocol said:
[broken link removed]

In this article, 4 reasons for a property tax are listed.
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I agree with a lot of the article, except for the amount!

If €1.3bn was being collected at the height of the boom there is no need to replace the full amount. If we start trying to restore all taxes to their 2007 levels where is the incentive to find efficiencies in grossly inefficient spending?

Let's not forget that water charges are on the way as well. €0.5bn from each of these two new taxes would be more than enough. Any more, as has been pointed out, will lead to a ridiculous system of means testing, waivers, etc.
 
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