It's an instrument to obtain cash from a digital account, whether it's access of funds or a line of credit (credit card or overdraft).
Has any politician criticised the people who stole money from Bank of Ireland?
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This is a fair description of its function.
T McGibney
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It's purpose is clearly not to withdraw cash when neither funds nor a line of credit exists to facilitate such a withdrawal.
Brendan Burgess
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Bank of Ireland had a problem with their online and app.
They left the ATMs up so as not to inconvenience customers.
And a few people exploited this knowing that they had no money in their accounts.
I can't see how anyone could defend this behaviour.
Brendan
They left the ATMs up so as not to inconvenience customers.
And a few people exploited this knowing that they had no money in their accounts.
I can't see how anyone could defend this behaviour.
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
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Folks
There is a very clear title to this thread.
Please stay on topic. If someone posts rubbish, don't respond. Ignore it or report it.
Brendan
There is a very clear title to this thread.
Please stay on topic. If someone posts rubbish, don't respond. Ignore it or report it.
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
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This is how it was discussed on Claire Byrne this morning
Fg Colm Brophy
Roisin Shortall – Social Democrats
Elaine Loughlin - Irish Examiner
Louise Bayliss - Sparks spokesperson - campaigner for Focus Ireland
Starts at 1.41.19
Colm Brophy spoke about this happening in other countries.
Our international Reputation
The involvement of Gardai
Claire Byrne: Are you happy with the Gardai guarding ATMs?
Roisin: Very surprising such a serious breach of security – we need to hear : how much was withdrawn. And what are they doing about it. It would be unacceptable for the Gardai to be protecting ATMs or. We have no proof of that. If there was anti-social activity , the Gardai should have been involved. We need to hear from the Garda Commissioner – the idea of the gardai protecting boi or stopping people using ATMs is completely unacceptable.
1.46.28 Louise: There were a lot of parents who thought this was a blessing from Heaven if I am to be honest – this is one of the crunch points for families getting children back to school and a lot are suffering from cost of living who are really worried about how I am going to get the uniform next week, the school bus, the technology cost and people are under a lot of stress
And having this appear the week before children go back to school – a lot of parents went “our prayers have been answered" Now I am concerned about those parents getting themselves into debt and having to pay this back and maybe withdrawing money they didn’t have but quite frankly, the week that was in it, I can absolutely understand why some parents run at the bank and thought this was a blessing
Claire: WE have not heard from the Chief Executive
Neither Claire Byrne nor either of the other politicians challenged this.
Fg Colm Brophy
Roisin Shortall – Social Democrats
Elaine Loughlin - Irish Examiner
Louise Bayliss - Sparks spokesperson - campaigner for Focus Ireland
Starts at 1.41.19
Colm Brophy spoke about this happening in other countries.
Our international Reputation
The involvement of Gardai
Claire Byrne: Are you happy with the Gardai guarding ATMs?
Roisin: Very surprising such a serious breach of security – we need to hear : how much was withdrawn. And what are they doing about it. It would be unacceptable for the Gardai to be protecting ATMs or. We have no proof of that. If there was anti-social activity , the Gardai should have been involved. We need to hear from the Garda Commissioner – the idea of the gardai protecting boi or stopping people using ATMs is completely unacceptable.
1.46.28 Louise: There were a lot of parents who thought this was a blessing from Heaven if I am to be honest – this is one of the crunch points for families getting children back to school and a lot are suffering from cost of living who are really worried about how I am going to get the uniform next week, the school bus, the technology cost and people are under a lot of stress
And having this appear the week before children go back to school – a lot of parents went “our prayers have been answered" Now I am concerned about those parents getting themselves into debt and having to pay this back and maybe withdrawing money they didn’t have but quite frankly, the week that was in it, I can absolutely understand why some parents run at the bank and thought this was a blessing
Claire: WE have not heard from the Chief Executive
Neither Claire Byrne nor either of the other politicians challenged this.
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People made withdrawals from an ATM by logging in with their correct pin and using their own bankcard. They did not engage in any fraudulent behaviour by trying to disquise their identity or to use another person's bankcard or pin.
Their only misdemeanor is obtaining an unauthorized overdraft.
There is a major difference between condemning their actions and calling these people thieves.
You should withdraw your allegation.
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These people obtained an unauthorised overdraft, which is part of the terms and conditions of the contract between bank and customer. Nothing untoward here. They just can't expect to come crying for handouts because they spent the next month's for budget on a TV.
Brendan Burgess
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No.
They took money which was not theirs.
They knew that their money was not in their account.
They intentionally exploited a systems problem at Bank of Ireland.
Brendan
They took money which was not theirs.
They knew that their money was not in their account.
They intentionally exploited a systems problem at Bank of Ireland.
Brendan
You do realise that disguising your identify isn't a requirement to commit fraud/theft? Just because a criminal is stupid, it doesn't make them any less criminal.
I have inadvertently gone into unauthorised overdraft on a handful of occasions on dedicated rent accounts that have just a token €100 overdraft facility and I have forgotten about a DD that happens once a year or something which then caused the accounts to go into unauthorised overdraft. Each time I paid the unauthorised overdraft penalty + interest and that was that. I can well believe that at least some of the people who withdrew funds assumed the funds were there as normally the ATM would display an insufficient funds error if the person had no authorised overdraft facility. The system is at fault if it is too difficult to recover the unauthorised overdraft in the case of a customer suddenly diverting their deposits to another bank account. Ireland is a debtor's paradise IMO (speaking as someone who has fought and won judgement against defaulting tenants in Ireland and never saw a penny of the debt). That's the fault of politics mainly. The laws could be amended to ensure that debtors pay, even if only a fiver a week from their welfare if they are dependent on it (and I suspect most people are not).
Brendan Burgess
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I fully agree with this.
Anyone who went to the ATM as normal on Tuesday afternoon to check their balance and take out the usual amount - say €200 - who could not check their balance but took out the €200 is blameless in my opinion.
If they went into the red, they will fix that with their next pay cheque. They should not and will not face any penalty or interest for this.
Brendan
The answer to that question seems to be no.
It looks like nobody in authority is of the opinion that these people are thieves.
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Brendan Burgess
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@ S class
Do you believe that people who knew they had no money in their account who withdrew €500 with a view to then abandoning their account knowing that it would be impractical for Bank of Ireland to pursue them did anything wrong?
Brendan
Do you believe that people who knew they had no money in their account who withdrew €500 with a view to then abandoning their account knowing that it would be impractical for Bank of Ireland to pursue them did anything wrong?
Brendan
It's clear that the law and morality (what ever that means) days they should return it.
But how do we point the finger at someone who has "no money" by your definition gaming the system to gain advantage. Considering the system, banks are be quick to take advantage of rates, peoples difficulties etc to make a fast buck when it suits them. They are no stranger to being fined or repremanded for such activities themselves.
The are making a billion in profits during a cost of living crisis. This is a mistake of their own creation. Perhaps caused by cost cutting at the expense of peoples jobs and reducing quality of services. I think it would be hard for them to take the moral high ground.
What should you do if a cash machine overpays?
Dozens of cash machines in Sydney, Australia, were ejecting cash erroneously. If you take the money under those circumstances, what is the correct legal and moral action?
www.bbc.com
Presumption of innocence I suppose?!
I'd have thought withdrawing money from an ATM on a credit card is borrowing money.
Is an unauthorised overdraft stealing? And as far as I know this happens often.
Those that were stupid enough to withdraw the money are going to learn a big lesson on how much it will cost them when they see how much the interest rate is. The bank is probably going to make a tidy sum out of all of this.