november16
Registered User
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WowI agree. I would be disgusted if one of my employees carried on like the poster is doing. If I saw one of my employees carry on like that I would carry out a formal disciplinary process and ensure they got no pay rises going forward. He is letting his whole team, and himself/herself, down.
curious and curiouser subtle bullying maybe harassment also possibly illegalBelieve me Leo, I would be subtle about it. I would have a Disciplinary hearing to send him/her a strong message about how their team was let down, how other team members had to do heir work which he was enjoying himself/herself at the races etc. I would then provide a verbal warning etc. I would not let it go to the WRC.
Not good enough OP. We are emotionally invested now.You need to make sure everyone in the office knows you went so we can see how theyd react...Two winners, still down a bit overall. Met no one there from work. No interest in Imelda, I left at 8:30 after the last race.
He could wear an Imelda May pirates eyepatch to get the chat going at the watercooler.Not good enough OP. We are emotionally invested now.You need to make sure everyone in the office knows you went so we can see how theyd react...
Your contributions are as good as the next contributor’s Paul. No-one has a monopoly on knowledge here. The legal experts can give good legal advice, for example, but it’s not just about the law. Many other factors, as has been outlined on this thread, come into play in any given situation. Even the experts are not all in agreement on this one. The OP here may well have found himself involved in a disciplinary process, or may not. Who knows? It’s never black and white. The world is full of grey. Keep on contributing. Even if it matters not a jot to you, that just adds to your objectivity.Nah, plenty of good advice and true professionals from all walks, who give time to help and advise those who need it , but this thread has truly jumped the shark on rules on decency, integrity and morals.
I know I had the dis- pleasure of letting people go for "behaviour that wasn't in keeping with corporate standards " and the argument went to court, the corporate prevailed as the contract of employment was written in a very US way with onus on the employee to comply with the employment contract.( that was 20 + years ago but in this century)Your contributions are as good as the next contributor’s Paul. No-one has a monopoly on knowledge here. The legal experts can give good legal advice, for example, but it’s not just about the law. Many other factors, as has been outlined on this thread, come into play in any given situation. Even the experts are not all in agreement on this one. The OP here may well have found himself involved in a disciplinary process, or may not. Who knows? It’s never black and white. The world is full of grey. Keep on contributing. Even if it matters not a jot to you, that just adds to your objectivity.
Two winners, still down a bit overall.
Two winners, still down a bit overall. Met no one there from work. No interest in Imelda, I left at 8:30 after the last race.
Yeah, a cert saying they are not fit to work does not mean they have to remain at home during working hours.From an employer POV I’d be disappointed I think but do understand that it wasn’t during working hours. I presume had it if been a daytime event then a total no no and employees could be pulled up. But maybe I’m wrong?
you should address any disciplinary process about their ongoing failure rather than any one off event where they didn't show up while a medical cert was in effect.
In theory, you are correct.
In practice, it's quite hard for get rid of someone for underperformance. It's hard to measure and is often subjective.
Showing up at the races while on a sick cert is factual. It might not be a reason for firing someone, but it would be easier than firing them for underperformance.
In fairness it works both ways. There are lots of companies/ organisations with cultures that stink to high heaven and lots of bullying or pressurising managers, particularly in private sector. In fact I'd say for both phenomena in my experience this is rife. Work can be unpleasant and theres no monopoly on good or bad behaviour.Agree with this. You only need to read Labour court decisions to read how hard it is to dismiss somebody for underperformance. Chances are for the minority of underperformers who don't improve with a PIP or genuine supportive performance management help, it's an attitude problem and these are the same kind of individuals who can be very litigious. Disciplinary processes are tricky and any breakdown in the process or unfairness can undermine the whole thing, on top of many roles being hard to quantify performance in a fully objective and transparent way that can't be in any way challenged.
In fairness it works both ways. There are lots of companies/ organisations with cultures that stink to high heaven and lots of bullying or pressurising managers, particularly in private sector. In fact I'd say for both phenomena in my experience this is rife. Work can be unpleasant and theres no monopoly on good or bad behaviour.
I've done it, it is difficult and time-consuming, but worth the effort. That was reinforced the first time I was through the process when others on the team opened up about being sick of carrying dead weight.In practice, it's quite hard for get rid of someone for underperformance. It's hard to measure and is often subjective.
I's factual, but you absolutely can not discipline someone for not showing up at work while on medical leave.Showing up at the races while on a sick cert is factual. It might not be a reason for firing someone, but it would be easier than firing them for underperformance.
That was reinforced the first time I was through the process when others on the team opened up about being sick of carrying dead weight.
We had a case where someone posted pictures on social media after completing a park run while on sick leave, HR wanted to action on that and sought legal advice, they were told not to touch it, and not to even mention that we were aware of it in case any future disciplinary procedure might be seen as tainted by it.
If you bring it up, they can use that to support a claim of being victimised in any future disciplinary action.That sounds like poor legal advice.
There would be no harm in asking the person about it to show that you were aware of it.
While it might taint a future disciplinary procedure, it could well help a future disciplinary procedure.
Brendan
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