Generation Game- David McWilliam's take on Irish economy

[Sherman]

Unfortunately McWilliams forgets the main reason we couldn't just issue passports to everyone in the 'diaspora' (by the way, I'd love to know how you'd define diaspora - an Irish granny? Great-granny? Great-great-great granny - all from the days when paper records weren't exactly de rigeur in places like Argentina) - the EU would have a hissy fit if we suddenly issued 3 million new Irish passports.

Being honest, most of those Argentinians and Americans would end up in London the day they got hold of their Irish passport...

 

[gonk]

Unfortunately McWilliams forgets the main reason we couldn't just issue passports to everyone in the 'diaspora' (by the way, I'd love to know how you'd define diaspora - an Irish granny? Great-granny? Great-great-great granny - all from the days when paper records weren't exactly de rigeur in places like Argentina) - the EU would have a hissy fit if we suddenly issued 3 million new Irish passports.

The rules regarding citizenship for descendants of Irish emigrants are already quite generous compared to many other countries - all you need is one Irish grandparent.

This, by the way, is probably the main reason successive governments have been so reluctant to extend voting rights to the Irish abroad. I remember seeing in the Sunday Press years ago an estimate that there were about 21 million people worldwide (apart from those already in Ireland!) who were entitled to Irish citizenship by reason of the above rule. Imagine if they all decided to vote in a general election . . .

 

[Afuera]

This, by the way, is probably the main reason successive governments have been so reluctant to extend voting rights to the Irish abroad. I remember seeing in the Sunday Press years ago an estimate that there were about 21 million people worldwide (apart from those already in Ireland!) who were entitled to Irish citizenship by reason of the above rule. Imagine if they all decided to vote in a general election . . .

The restrictions on the rights of Irish abroad to vote go above and beyond that though. If you are an Irish citizen living outside the country temporarily, even if it's in an other EU country, you lose your right to vote! You can only vote in Ireland if you're an Irish citizen and you're resident there. I suspect that Irish citizens abroad would be more likely to look for a change in the regime at home and the govenment is reluctant to help that happen.

 

[ubiquitous]

I suspect that Irish citizens abroad would be more likely to look for a change in the regime at home and the govenment is reluctant to help that happen.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[gonk]

Is that a bad thing?

I think it certainly would be a bad thing if the number of potential voters resident outside Ireland was several times the number in Ireland.

 

[Afuera]

Is that a bad thing?

I'm not going to argue about whether it's good or bad thing. Only that it goes against standard practise in the developed world. Why do we deny our citizens the right to vote?

Most other developed countries have a postal vote for those living abroad. Australians by law are required to vote no matter where they are in the world. In this day and age, with increased movement throughout the EU, it seems very odd that we deny our citizens the right to vote, once they move a couple of hundred kilometres away.

 

[Afuera]

I think it certainly would be a bad thing if the number of potential voters resident outside Ireland was several times the number in Ireland.

I don't think we should give people, who are only Irish citizens on paper (through a link with the great-grandmother or whatever), the right to vote on a country they have never been to. They could at least allow Irish citizens who have been resident in the country within the last 5 years or so to vote though.

 

[ubiquitous]

They could at least allow Irish citizens who have been resident in the country within the last 5 years or so to vote though.

Nice in theory but dodgy in practice. Given the poor state of the electoral register at home, it would be hard to be confident that the authorities could competently supervise the process abroad.

 

[Afuera]

Unfortunately McWilliams forgets the main reason we couldn't just issue passports to everyone in the 'diaspora' (by the way, I'd love to know how you'd define diaspora - an Irish granny? Great-granny? Great-great-great granny - all from the days when paper records weren't exactly de rigeur in places like Argentina) - the EU would have a hissy fit if we suddenly issued 3 million new Irish passports.

Being honest, most of those Argentinians and Americans would end up in London the day they got hold of their Irish passport...

Why would they have to issue them with Irish passports? They could give them a 3-5 year working visa for Ireland only? If they stay in Ireland for 5 years, they would be entitled to become an Irish citizen through the naturalization process that currently exists.

 

[Afuera]

Nice in theory but dodgy in practice. Given the poor state of the electoral register at home, it would be hard to be confident that the authorities could competently supervise the process abroad.

I don't think that a postal vote requires that much supervision tbh. You're right though on the point about the state of the electoral register though. It seems like a lot of things in Ireland are quite dodgy in practise.

 

[webtax]

I think he has to be congratulated for causing us to think outside the box

Agree completely - Bertie & co have been whingeing about the 'prophets or doom' for talking up our problems, but McWilliams offers more vision & initiative than anyone in the government.
Have you heard of any coherent long term vision from the government besides their transport 2020 and decentralisation debacle?

 

[samfarrell]

How exactly will issuing passports to emmigrants solve the economic problems we have as McWilliams suggests it will ?
and why do we think the well educated ones would return here to live ?, I suggest we would get the ones who are less innovative
this suggestion could be a disaster of great proportions

 

[gonk]

I don't think that a postal vote requires that much supervision tbh.

The British government attempted to bring in widespread use of postal voting in recent years to increase election turnout.

The result was chaotic, with widespread allegations of maladministration, fraud, vote buying and voter coercion.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election/story/0,15803,1458341,00.html

New fears over postal vote fraud



[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]System nears crisis point as main parties are told to stop interfering[/FONT]

 

[Afuera]

The British government attempted to bring in widespread use of postal voting in recent years to increase election turnout.

The result was chaotic, with widespread allegations of maladministration, fraud, vote buying and voter coercion.

Overseas postal voting is not open to the same problems they encountered in Birmingham though. When they tried to do it there as a test case they had people burning postboxes, attacking and bribing postmen etc. This can only happen if everyone in the local area needs to use the postal system to vote, so I wouldn't rate this a very good reference for its viability.

 

[ubiquitous]

So to take one example, would you be 100% sure that the IRA/Noraid activists among the Irish community in the Bronx in the 1980s would have been above this, had they been given the opportunity?

 

[Afuera]

So to take one example, would you be 100% sure that the IRA/Noraid activists among the Irish community in the Bronx in the 1980s would have been above this, had they been given the opportunity?

If it's only Irish citizens, who were resident in Ireland within the last few years that could vote, I don't see how they'd get much of an opportunity from it tbh.

 

[Sarsfield]

and why do we think the well educated ones would return here to live ?

But that's not the idea at all. The idea is to create a global network that works to the benefit of Ireland. Not to bring all the 10th generation Irish home!

The diaspora can invest in Ireland from abroad and create new sales opportunities for Irish business across the world.

That's what McWilliams proposes.

 

[z109]

But that's not the idea at all. The idea is to create a global network that works to the benefit of Ireland. Not to bring all the 10th generation Irish home!

The diaspora can invest in Ireland from abroad and create new sales opportunities for Irish business across the world.

That's what McWilliams proposes.

The bit I don't understand about the idea is what would these suckers, sorry investors, get out of it that isn't available a) to them in other investment markets b) to other investors in Ireland. Is he suggesting that poor business ideas should be invested in simply because they are in Ireland? To me that is poor business/investment/economics.

If it is not what he is suggesting, is he talking about some sort of Irish 'brotherhood' like the masons? (We could have a uniform for meetings, a GAA shirt, a sacred drink (anything with alcohol in it), speak gaolge as a secret code!).

 

[almo]

Personally as an Irish person living abroad I'm against giving "diaspora" the vote. For those born and registered in Ireland and working abroad (for less than a year) I'd allow it at a local embassy.

Reasons why not to allow "diaspora" a vote: 1. Croatia.

This so-called "diaspora" not only egged on a war, but supported the warmongers to drag the country into an unnecessary war. And ever since have cast their considerable vote for the far right party who currently control the country (with a little help from a certain Fianna Fail PR Master) and maintain the status quo from the previous communist/socialit regime.

I agree with the previous poster on the shennanigans that could have been, or would be possible, with certain elements in the Bronx, it happened and happens with the Croatian vote.

Give out passports, certainly if deserved, we missed out on one of the best defenders/defensive midfielders in Argentina back in the mid-80's, and given the developing prowess of the same country, surely there's an outhalf or two with Irish blood available for us!

 

[colc1]

Give out passports, certainly if deserved, we missed out on one of the best defenders/defensive midfielders in Argentina back in the mid-80's, and given the developing prowess of the same country, surely there's an outhalf or two with Irish blood available for us!

sorry I know a bit off topic but who was the midfielder (curiosity killed the cat!) haha