Gay Marraige For or Against

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mick1960 said:
Very akin to taking the children off unmarried mothers and putting the children in Industrial Schools I thought we had moved on,but the same prejudiced arguments are still being used.
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Who suggested any such thing?

mick1960 said:
Gay people pay as much in taxes as everyone in this country and should have the same rights.
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I agree if they want the right to have children with their gay partners then off they go.

People keep on going on about gay rights what about the rights of the children not to have their heads wrecked by same sex parents.

mick1960 said:
Joyce was tried and hounded out of the country because of the prejudice and the laws of his time but is held up now as a great Irishman.
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*edit last bit I was thinking about Oscar Wilde*

What does this have to do with gay marriage or gay adoption?

mick1960 said:
Its about time the Laws of today were updated so we do not make the same mistake again.
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Who says we're making mistakes?

mick1960 said:
The decline in the amount of children put up for adoption with in the state is down to the change in attitude to lone parents and financial support from the state to all parents.
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These are the same children that are for the work house I presume?

mick1960 said:
Gay people have brought up children in the past and will in the future,but now it should be made Legal.
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Complainer said:
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/children-of-same-sex-parents-do-just-as-well-91233.html might be of interest
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The only way a study of that nature would be of any benefit would be if it were over the course of 50 years not 2 or 3 or even 10.

I will never forget the story of baby twin boys one of who had a problem with his penis and the doc told his mother they would be best taking his sex organs off and bringing him up as a girl.

This doc for years was telling everyone about his great success it was proof in his mind that it was nuture not nature that determined what someone came out like.

Boys could be trained to be girls and vice a versa.

The mother treated the 'girl' like any other girl name 'her' a girls name sent 'her' to school wearing girls clothes.

The 'girl' was dreadfully unhappy wanted to play with boys toys and climb trees and suchlike.

One day listening to the radio the brother heard the doc telling people how he proved his theory that it was nuture not nature that determined which a child was to be, and gave details about 2 twin boys and a rough age.

The Brother told his what he thought was his sister and from that day till this the 'girl' became a man.

He hasn't spoken to his mother since and I really couldn't blame him.

Nature
 
S.L.F said:
Joyce was stupid to be going after the sons of lords and they got him for it.
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Where the hell did you get this from? Back to your Irish Literature (under 12s). You may well find out that although both lived in Paris only one fancied Bosie
 
Chocks away said:
Where the hell did you get this from? Back to your Irish Literature (under 12s). You may well find out that although both lived in Paris only one fancied Bosie
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Sorry Chocks I was thinking of Oscar Wilde
 
So S.L.F., if the child is male/female from birth, and raised by straight parents, then how do they 'become' gay ?
Answer: They don't, they always had that inclination.

So kids raised by gay parents aren't gonna 'have their heads wrecked' or turn homosexual by gay parents any more than by straight parents as nature wins out in human beings who are able to reason and imagine for themselves. I would hazard a guess that there will be a statistically insignificant difference either way.

It's not as if gays or lesbians would raise a girl as a boy or a boy as a girl, y'know!
 
Pique318 said:
So S.L.F., if the child is male/female from birth, and raised by straight parents, then how do they 'become' gay ?
Answer: They don't, they always had that inclination.
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Answer: They either have female brains in male bodies or male brains in female bodies or more likely social factors come into play.

I don't have all the answers I just know what feels right.


I never said children would be turned homosexual by gay parents intentionally or otherwise.

Pique318 said:
It's not as if gays or lesbians would raise a girl as a boy or a boy as a girl, y'know!
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I never said they would and never thought they would either.
 
S.L.F said:
I don't have all the answers I just know what feels right.
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And that's the crux of it, Ladies & Gennelmen.
There are some things that people will never agree on.
One mans hero is another mans villain etc...

I'm not trying to force my opinions on other people and neither is anyone else trying to do it to me. While I don't agree with their point of view (or even really understand it at times) I accept that it's a valid point of view to have. It may not be PC, but neither are some of mine and there you go.

Remember, you are unique, just like everyone else. If we all thought the same, it'd be a boring bloody world.
 

You're wrong!!!

 
S.L.F said:
I will never forget the story of baby twin boys one of who had a problem with his penis and the doc told his mother they would be best taking his sex organs off and bringing him up as a girl.
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The facts of this story are completely different than what you have presented here. You are talking about baby Bruce Reimer, he had a twin brother Brian. The twins went to hospital for routine circumcision surgery and the equipment malfunctioned and burnt Bruces penis off. The family were distraught. Plastic surgery was not an option in the 60s. Even today doctors will not reconstruct a baby boys penis because of problems when the child starts to grow.

The family saw a televison program about Dr Money, a sexologist and wondered if he could help them, at this point they had a disfigured baby boy and conventional medicine could do nothing for them. The doctor convinced them a sex change would work out, and persuaded them to raise Bruce as Brenda. The believed the psychological effects of a male with no penis would be worse for the child, plus the doctors theory of a gender-gate up to 2 years of age was unproven.

S.L.F said:
This doc for years was telling everyone about his great success it was proof in his mind that it was nuture not nature that determined what someone came out like.
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Studies performed were incorrect, this was the 60s, some of the doctors theories were workable, unfortunately this one was not. We know a lot more about gender now than we did then.

S.L.F said:
The mother treated the 'girl' like any other girl name 'her' a girls name sent 'her' to school wearing girls clothes.
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On the advice of a highly intelligent and charismatic doctor who had persuaded her she was doing the best for her child. Instead of a badly disfigured male child she was trying to raise a 'normal' female child.



In fact due to the childs confusion and upset the family themselves told her the facts when she was 13 years old. She immediately reverted to living as male and named herself David.

S.L.F said:
The Brother told his what he thought was his sister and from that day till this the 'girl' became a man.
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Unfortunately that day til this is a fallacy, David committed suicide at the age of 38.

S.L.F said:
He hasn't spoken to his mother since and I really couldn't blame him.
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He was in fact back living with his parents when he took his own life, he never blamed his mother, it was a botched operation and a bad decision by another doctor that caused the whole sorry tale. He was seperated from his wife, and in a state of distress about the seperation when he moved back to his parents and took his own life.

I dont see what any of this has to do with gay parenting though. Are you confusing sexuality and gender? Gay men do not think they are women trapped in mens bodies. Nor would I expect gay parents to be operating on children to reassign their gender.
 
truthseeker said:
I dont see what any of this has to do with gay parenting though. Are you confusing sexuality and gender? Gay men do not think they are women trapped in mens bodies. Nor would I expect gay parents to be operating on children to reassign their gender.
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The point I was making is you can't play god with childrens lives!

Which is exactly what those doctors have done they played god.

They have disproved the nurture over nature theory and it cost a man his life.
 
S.L.F said:
The point I was making is you can't play god with childrens lives!
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Why, who's trying ?

What has 'god' got to do with this (gay marriage/adoption by gay parents) thread ? And which 'god' in particular ?


This thread has gone off on one strange tangent !
 
S.L.F said:
The point I was making is you can't play god with childrens lives!

Which is exactly what those doctors have done they played god.

They have disproved the nurture over nature theory and it cost a man his life.
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But SLF, what happened in that particular situation (which I might add was a particularly unusual and tragic case and not the norm by any standards) was that the doctor persuaded the parents that what was being done was best for the child after an horrendous accident. It is also worth noting that the doctor in question believed the parents delayed too long and missed the 'gender gate'. Ultimately they were trying to protect their child from the horror of being a male with no penis.
It has no bearing on an upbringing by gay parents. ALL parents 'play god' with their children and do what they think is best at the time - the parents sexuality has no bearing on that particular aspect of parenting.

Are you afraid that gay parents would somehow 'turn' a child gay? If thats what the fear is then I would think the proof is quite clear that thats not how people develop a particular sexual preference - otherwise there would never be a gay child of straight parents.
 
truthseeker said:
ALL parents 'play god' with their children and do what they think is best at the time - the parents sexuality has no bearing on that particular aspect of parenting.
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The boy I was referring to had doctors telling his parents they could change his sex which they could not.

My point was also that we, men and women; boys and girls, are different does it not follow that we need the differences (parents of 2 sexes 1 man and 1 woman) in life to get our heads striaght.


I didn't at any stage suggest that adopting gay parents would try to convert their adopted children to the gay way of life.

There is no proof one way or the other what turns people gay.
 
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