Fuel burning stove with back boiler not heating rads.

hi all i also bought stove from the company paddycclub was talking about.. i have had nothing but problems since the stove was installed. firstly smoke filling the house when door opened then blacked glass all the time it does not heat the house at all. i have now noticed water collecting at bottom of stove under the ash pan... im at my wit end at this stage feel it is going to be the most expensive ornament in the house... as i am getting scared to light it were all going to be dead from carbon dioxide posioning... any idea whats going on tks

When we first got our stove from this company it too was leaking. We got it replaced within 2 days. Our second one seems fine, except of course for my original post above. Somebody suggested we fit a damper. But I don't think this will resolve anything. Will only limit the air and so burn slower and not as hot.

PS, I'd get a carbon monoxide detector, for safety. Can't be too careful. have you tried going back to stoves2udriect?
 
Hello all, I am a new poster, looking for info about my new back boiler system. I have 3 coils in my 251lt tank, 1 for solar panels (which are fantastic), 1 for oil (fitted when house was built and working fine) and now a stove with back boiler fitted onto the 3rd coil. Like some others on this thread I was very disappointed with the performance of the stove, but eventually found out that it was the way I was using the fire - it was not adequately explained in the booklet, but I kept the vents at the top of the glass door open so the glass would stay clean, but this was sending all the heat up the chimney. Since being advised to close it after the fire gets going my rads are nice and hot - but i still have a problem, the water in my tank isn't heating - the plumber just keeps telling me that it is because I have such a big tank, but when the rads were not heating properly he was telling me that I would have keep on a roaring fire just to heat them - but I told him that I had bought the correct fire for the number of rads, but he just didn't take me on.
Sorry for long post, but anyone got any suggestions? BTW the pump does a lot of loud clicking and clanking when it starts running, as does the back boiler when the fire gets hot..
 
Could you give more information on which pipe the pump is located on and where the pipe thermostat is located.

Also which coil in the cylinder is being used for the stove, middle coil or top coil? Also does the stove coil flow pipe enter the cylinder above the coil returning to the stove or are they side by side?
 
I will try my best to answer your questions. The thermostat is located in my loft (bungalow) directly above where the pipe enters the loft. Both pipes go up into the loft.

I think it is the middle coil in the tank as there were no pipes attached to this large nut until I got the stove fitted. The solar seems enter at the top (it has different colour lagging), but I am not sure where the oil enters - it may be round the back of the tank and I can't see it.

It looks like the stove coil pipe does enter the cylinder above the return and the pump is on the pipe attached to the returning coil pipe, but above the point where the return of the coil comes out of the tank.

Does all that make sense?
 
If both pipes are rising from the stove, going across the attic and dropping down into hot press, then this is absolutely plumbed incorrectly. Is the pipe thermostat on the flow pipe or the return pipe? (Flow pipe is the top pipe exiting the stove)

If this is the way it is plumbed, then god only knows what will happen if you have a large fire lit and you have a circulating pump failure or a power cut!

Is the pump for the stove fitted on the stove circuit or on the pipes teed from the primary circuit to the radiators?

Middle coil is the correct coil.
 
The thermostat is on the flow pipe. There is an expansion tank in the loft too. I have had many large fires lit. The rads get hot but i know it is not heating the tank because I have thermostats at different positions in the tank for the solar, and I can read the temperature at different points in the tank. It never gets any hotter by the end of the evening than it was before I light the fire.
I am sorry I am not sure if I can answer that last question I will have to get help from someone, but from my limited knowledge it looks like it is fitted on stove circuit. The return of the stove coil leaves the tank and goes upwards into the loft. The pump is on this pipe.
 
I just heard noise in the loft and found that hot water was flushing into the expansion tank. Could this be where my hot water is going?
 
Your system is pitching. This will in no time at all begin to rust your heating system from the inside out. As it pitches from the open vent safety pipe into the expansion tank, it gathers fresh oxygen, thus re-oxygenating the water in your heating system, which oxidizes the steel parts of the system, i.e. internals of radiators, stove, boiler, etc. This will also lead to a lot of sludge within your system and you will definitely need your system powerflushed.

Two things are also happening here. Both the pipes should not be run your your attic. You have no gravity circuit whatsoever. Hot water is less dense than cold water and it naturally wants to rise when hot and colder more dense water wants to lower, creating a circuit. Your return from the cylinder (cooler dense water) has to rise into the attic to get back to the stove. Equally the hot (less dense) water in the flow needs to drop down from the attic into your cylinder which is does not want to do naturally. The banging will be from the pump not kicking in quick enough. The pipe thermostat should thus be re-located to the flow pipe as it exits the stove.

More importantly you do not have enough height between the upper most part of the heating system, i.e. the flow & return pipes in the attic and the f & e tank. This distance must be minimum 1/3 of the head of pressure generated by the circulating pump, therefore if the pump is a 25/50 (5 meter pump) the minimum distance is 1.66m and if it is a 25/60 (6 meter pump), the minimum distance should be 2m.

I would also check where the f & e pipe is teed into the system and where the open safety vent pipe tees off the system.

It is probably best to get somebody else in to check the system but make sure they know what they are talking about. Question them and ask them to explain in detail what the prblem is.

To install this system correctly you will either need to move the stove or break up the floor from the stove to the hot press to re-route the return pipe from the attic.
 
What is the temperature of the pipe thermostat set to?
If this is low to bring in the pump early to reduce banging, it will not switch off until it cools to that low temperature again, thus once the stove goes out, it will use the hot water in the cylinder as the heat source and drain out the hw water via the coil.

The f & e tank will also be acting as a radiator due to the pitching.
 
thank you for your advice. I will print off your comments and try to find a plumber who can fix the system. Problem is that plumbers do not want to take on what other plumbers have done, and second problem is getting a plumber to come in the first place!
Several people have said that the return pipe should be going back in the floor to the stove. I have solid wooden floors so it would mean taking up and spoiling part of the floor, but I am willing to do this to get the problem sorted.
BTW I have seen the 2 pipe via the loft working fine in other people's homes.
 
Yes it can be got to work but will it work safely when there is a power cut or a pump failure. Raising the tank will probably help the issue. Relocating the pipe thermostat to close to the outlet of the stove will also help bringing on the pump quicker.

There maybe other issues also that obviously I cannot see remotely but a decent plumber or heating engineer should be able to give the correct advice.

Your initial installer should have expained all the implications to you before carrying out this work and therefore you would been in a position to make an informed decision as whether or not to make the required changes to your home.
 
I was told that the best method would be one pipe up and other down, but that it would work with both pipes up, so I went for that.

Thanks Shane007 I will take a copy of your advice and try to get some help.
 
hi there
does anyone have any feedback on a Hamco Glenmore B30... we are thinking of installing it to heat approx 22 rads.. we have a stanley eirn, however this is not suitable for the number of rads we have.
 
The system (drop gravity) will work once the bottom of the hot water cylinder is fitted above the top of stove. This pipework route is undertaken if it is not possible to route the primary return under the floor from the hot water cylinder back to the stove. The primary circuit will be made up of an unrestricted 1 inch copper pipe with no valves, pumps fitted.
The maximum distance on a horizontal plane between the stove and cylinder is 8/9m
The optimum location for the cylinder is sitting beside the stove.
 
I think moving my tank into the loft would be a good idea - I have no room to get it above the height of the stove as it is 5ft tall and the solar panel controls are above it in my hot press. I am getting some advice on that now.

I told the plumbers who fitted the new tank that I would be getting a stove with a back boiler and to include a 3rd coil to accommodate it. Strange they didn't realize that would cause this problem.
 
Hi Villa 1. Thank you for your reply. We were told it would heat 20 radiators comfortably. We have 10 double radiators and we also have zoned heating, it is only heating when one zone is off and they are only luke warm. We have fueled it up to the top with coal, used 2 bags of 40k in two days, to see if it would make a difference, its doesn't. Plumber says all pipes are right, rang manufacturer, maybe its the stove. Waiting for a reply from them.
I installed a stove last week in place of a stanley oil cooker. I lit a few small fires at first as recommended. After the first few small fires I put down a very good coal fire and kept it going all night. The rads were only tepid and no heat from the stove. I had heard that timber was best fuel for a stove with a back boiler. Next night I burned all timber and everything worked like it should water piping hot and room tempt went up to almost 25 degrees C. It is a Boru 20kw stove heating 10 rads in a bungalow.
 
Hi just a quick update ,rang the manufacturers who sent their plumber to have a look ,he agreed that the plumbing was fine, he also said the stove should be well able to heat the amount of radiators (10 double) but he did not know were the heat was going, so i suggested that maybe it was the stove and he agreed to replace it ,so last Friday we got a new stove fitted, a bit of a messy job, he left ,i lit ,hey presto its working ,my house is toasty ,radiators and water are really hot, so it was the stove and everybody said it could not be, as they are so simple they can’t go wrong, but they can, just to say my house is 2600 Sq-ft and the stove is 30k and is now heating it comfortably, i would like to thank villa1 for your support and askaboutmoney ,i can now get my house back to normal. Thanks again

hi can i ask what brand because im having same trouble and company wont acknowledge me thanks
 
Hello byrne1,

I can see you solved your boiler problem and now all is well....could you please tell me which stove/boiler you have as I am looking for a good one myself, and also the cost as well please..I need one to heat up about 20 rads.


Villa1,

You have helped so many people on here and would appreciate it if you could also answer the questions:

1,What makes are best for heating 20 rads?
2,How much will it roughly cost?
3,Any idea where to buy?


Thanks :)


Thanks
 
Hiya Jimmyjo. Just spotted you enquiry.
I would check out Olymberyl, Hunter or stanley stoves with boilers. They should range in price from 1.500-2000 euros in price.
The best place to buy these stoves would be in a plumbers merchant/ co-op/creamery or a large general hardware store like MD O'Sheas etc.
Make sure you get a reputable plumbing contractor to fit this appliance and check out his/her past catalogue of installations of this type. This is important as many contractors are not proficient in installations using gravity circulation and design which can lead to ongoing heating/plumbing problems and in some cases extremely dangerous situations.
The plumber will be able to size your heating requirement and recommend a suitable stove with adequate output.
Keep in mind that a solid fuel heating appliance will not have the same heating up time a a gas/oil boiler and will also be less efficient.
Hope this helps!!
 
I have a Stanley Erin with a back boiler that adequately heats several rads ( not all of them ) it is an open system with an expansion tank in the attic, the main heat source in the house was gas which is now rarely used but available to boost the heat if required, I do not run both systems at the same time for safety reasons.

I am satisfied with the heat output but have some questions...

Stove and water tank are on the same level, the hot water pipe exits the top of the stove at the rear and travels up at a 45 degree angle for about 4 metres then crosses inside the ceiling space about 4 metres and down through the water tank to heat the water, it is an unorthodox system, plumbers have told me it can't possibly work as hot water just cannot travel across and down again, but it does and there is no pump at this point assisting it's travel, it is capable of heating the water tank....?

I lose heat in the water tank overnight through I think simple heat transfer through the pipes, I was going to put a thermostatic non return value on the pipe that will close down this heat transfer but am concerned about doing this, If I do I will keep my heat in the water tank to my desired temperature but are there risks..?

My small expansion tank in way up in the attic space ( it's a dormer ), this expansion tank heats up just as much as the rads, is this normal..?.

The pump used to circulate the heat through the rads is manually controlled, the system itself makes no unusual noises.

My stove also heats a little when the gas boiler is on, I can feel the heated pipe entering the stove and circulating in / out of the stove which of course heats the boiler in the stove..

How does this sound..?, I'm aware that I shouldn't really have solid fuel effectively broken into the sealed system that is natural gas but so be it...the system is in about 3 years now, trouble free but am I storing up trouble from a bodge job that was just made to work day 1..?...would my addition of another thermostic valve work..?

Thoughts welcome .>?
 
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