Formation of new government

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@Purple In relation to state services, you are right about inefficient and ineffective processes but the main problem is not the processes but rather the large numbers of staff (not all) who contribute almost nothing to these processes and are still un touchable in their employment.

I think it was James Reilly who made this point quite well when asked why he wasnt reforming the health service as promised. His respomse was that 80% of the budget related to the cost of staff and in terms of the staff in place, they were untouchable regardless of their performance. So even though the service needs lots more front line staff, there is no budget to hire them as the payroll is already being spent on swathes of unsuitable employees who contribute very little.

The solution is not to spend more on the health service but to weed out the rot and replace it with people who possess the skills needed.
Main problem is political will, employment law and unions. Same problem throughout the public service too.
 
I don't think the problem is necessarily over-staffing but rather inefficient systems and processes as well as labour inflexibility. Both Unions and senior management have a responsibility for that.
 
Back to Forming a New Government . . . the dust is settling on the General Election. From forecasts three weeks ago in the Irish Times, RTE, Independent etc they all got it wrong. Let's hope Micheal Martin, Enda Kenny, Gerry Adams don't get it wrong now. What I have been reading in the newspapers and listening on the radio the Big 3 are putting party before the country. Ultimately, this will cost them.

The Irish people have spoken and if they are ignored be it at your own cost Micheal, Enda and Gerry. We want a stable government and not something that will last only eighteen months. The people are fed up with jargon, austerity, crooked politicians, crooked bankers etc. Bring on an early general election and you will pay the price.

If Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael cannot come to some kind of long-term working agreement both looking over their shoulders at Sinn Féin the people will find a long term solution. I have no problems with Sinn Féin leading the opposition or Sinn Féin sharing power with FF or FG. FF and FG don't see it like that, but this is what we have, get over it.

Bertie Ahern should keep his mouth shut with his predictions. He is past tense. He was one of the guys who got us into dreadful debt in the first place. On last evening's RTE news we learned that due to the inability to form a government in Spain and Portugal they are suffering increase in interest rates for a start. I don't think the Big 3 could put up with the public's wrath should this happen here.

We now have an intelligent electorate. Have a look at the first preference votes for Independents, Green Party, (leave out Labour, FF, FG, SF, Renua). Even ignore the spoiled votes and the one in three people who did not vote.You will find that all these protest voters contribute to a near quota in any election first count. Big 3, ignore at your peril.

I hope a new government can be formed quickly. Forget about the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising; that's past, so be patriotic and look to the future. If you don't the people will.
 
Absolutely agree Leper. Now that the shock of the election result is abating somewhat I think the people will start demanding that the politicians grow up, act maturely and get on with the job of forming a government. The cards have been dealt and the result to a certain extent frees up the parties (especially FG and FF) to move away from their manifestos somewhat to reach a compromise in order to form a government that can last the full term. They just need to get on with it now.
 
The ones with the most to gain from an early election are Gerry "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member" Adams and Mícheál "I'm the saviour come again" Martin. It is their behaviour that should bear the most intense scrutiny. They need to start stepping up to the plate with constuctive ideas - haven't seen a whole lot from either of them yet. MM's little tactical delay ploy might prove a boon but otherwise he is still in election mode, populism rules.
 
so-crates said:
The ones with the most to gain from an early election are Gerry "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member" Adams and Mícheál "I'm the saviour come again" Martin. It is their behaviour that should bear the most intense scrutiny. They need to start stepping up to the plate with constuctive ideas - haven't seen a whole lot from either of them yet. MM's little tactical delay ploy might prove a boon but otherwise he is still in election mode, populism rules.
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Not sure I agree with Micheal and FF having a lot to gain by a quick election. A new FG leader could give them FG a bounce, especially if they spin the story that the only reason there is a 2nd election was because FF wouldn't be flexible. Couple of FFer's I know are concerned that they overachieved this time around

As for SF, they have been leaking support at a massive rate over the last 18 months. Remember not that long ago they were at around 28% in the polls and their actual vote last weel was around half of that. SF support has only gone in one direction over the last year and a half

Also, money is an issue here, how many of the parties actually have the funds for another election?
 
Where did any Voter say they wanted Stable Government ?

Voters I think only said {a plague on all your houses} ......
I agree with Leo , we are clearly fond of thieves, chancers and liars.

I now hear the platitudes on the (good) TD,s that lost their seats.
As Willie Shakespeare said { the good is oft interred with the bones}.

One thing I am fairly sure of is this , the now Big Beasts , FF, FG and Sinn Fein will NOT be thanked if they start posturizing .
Maybe the best outcome is instability and let us have another election to decide which one of these boyos we will properly decide hasn,t or can,t grow up.
 
A FG/FF collaboration might work if both could set aside party politics and come up with a workable program for government.

But this would require enormous discipline and single-mindedness to avoid every little issue breaking down on party lines.

Although I have not forgiven FF, I think Michael McGrath would be the kind of person to pull this off. He is very measured and I think would be respected by both parties.
 
blueband said:
While I wouldn't vote for him he has been excellent at shining a light on wrong doing and corruption! we need whistle blowers....
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He may have shone a light on others wrong doing but when it comes to himself he shows no remorse or atonement for his wrong doing, yeah we need more of these people running our country
 
Cervelo ,

As an ex Taioseach said he {did the state some service}
.........................
Sophrosyne.
There is a cartoon , with 2 Goldfish looking at a (Fianna Fail did wellin election headline) , one says to the other {and they think we have short memories}
 
Cervelo said:
He may have shone a light on others wrong doing but when it comes to himself he shows no remorse or atonement for his wrong doing, yeah we need more of these people running our country
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Mick Wallace ... not a man to run a country, or even a business. But certainly a man for knocking over ant hills, and upsetting a few apple carts that needed upsetting, and for airing dirty laundry in public (both his own and the state's). He's the kindaguy to say that the emperor has no clothes when everyone else is keeping their head down. He's certainly done the state some service with his barrelling in where angels fear to tread.

We need a few more cranks in the Dail asking awkward questions and not more yes-sir no-sir groupthink-beholden anonymous backbenchers, or people whose only ambition is to serve in cabinet (and bank the ministerial pension) without any notion of what they do when they get there.
 
Gerry Canning said:
Sophrosyne.
There is a cartoon , with 2 Goldfish looking at a (Fianna Fail did wellin election headline) , one says to the other {and they think we have short memories}
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Well of course Gerry, if collaboration were to work it would require the laying aside of party politics by FG and FF, but also by the electorate.

Though the electorate may not have voted for stability, it needs it.
 
What about this for a model for power sharing. Every TD has a single transferrable vote. Every TD must be available for every cabinet post. The quota for Teashop is, say, 10 votes, MOF 7 votes, other major ministries 5 votes and the other minor ministries 3 votes. Then hold an open ballot. (I could even write a simple program for it so we avoid recounts:)) Senior ministers then appoint their own junior ministers.
 
Mícheál Martin needs to cop on to himself. Prioritising Irish Water and making that a deal breaker? I mean, of all the problems you could pick - he picks the stupidest one. Redline issues should be important. Spending even more money on re-imagining Irish Water into some palatable alternative he can fob off the masses with is not one of them. Let's face it. He hasn't proposed anything constructive. Nor have any of them. None of them actually have a bean about what they want to do. They all spout "abolish" but not a single one of them actually has come out with a workable solution. Probably they plan on making a worse hash of it by "nationalising" something we already own 100% :rolleyes: Going back to a fragmented, council-ridden service of variable quality is not exactly a wonderful idea.

Technically the flight from the left has already begun. "Left" representation (including the pseudo-left Sinners) is lower in the current Dáil than in the last. Why? Because they targeted Labour for crucifixion. Count the seats. Excluding independents for the moment, we have (currently) 49 FG + 44 FF = 93 centre-right TDs. On the other side we have 6 (currently) Labour, 23 (currently and probably) SF, 6 AAA-PBP, 3 SD = Grand total of 38 deputies. Nothing like hacking your nose off to spite your face, no siree. (In the last Dáil, we had 33 Labour alone).
 
thedaddyman said:
Not sure I agree with Micheal and FF having a lot to gain by a quick election. A new FG leader could give them FG a bounce, especially if they spin the story that the only reason there is a 2nd election was because FF wouldn't be flexible. Couple of FFer's I know are concerned that they overachieved this time around

As for SF, they have been leaking support at a massive rate over the last 18 months. Remember not that long ago they were at around 28% in the polls and their actual vote last weel was around half of that. SF support has only gone in one direction over the last year and a half

Also, money is an issue here, how many of the parties actually have the funds for another election?
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Fair points, but if there is an early election there will be an unholy scramble to blame each other. I still think that MM would like a second stab at the electorate within 18 months. Too much longer and a bedded in recovery will make it a harder row to hoe unless he has been very visibly part of the government that "made" it so (something he has stated he doesn't want).

FF has over achieved a bit. They have a bonus of 6 seats over their 1st Prefs. FG has over achieved more, they currently have a bonus of 9 seats over their 1st prefs (and very likely a bonus of 10).

SF support has consolidated though. They have increased their seats and they have secured a good percentage of the vote, despite the high-profile Slab Murphy trial, the Gerry the Gaffer factor, etc. One thing I found interesting was they are a good deal less transfer-toxic this time around.

Gerry told them to save the posters, their's weren't the only ones down quick as a flash, probably doesn't want to go knocking some cash out of people too soon but it is more likely that the smaller parties and independents would suffer worst of all if a fresh election is called.
 
FF are making a complete fool of themselves on this water thing, and so too is Simon Coveney. Henda is absolutely right that scrapping IW is not only costly, the decentralisation of water supply is just a nonsense. FF adopted the abolish IW mantra as a purely populist tactic. Possibly it got them votes but it is now a millstone round their neck. It is hard to see how FF can back down from "abolish IW". It is a bit easier for FG to give in as Simon Coveney hinted but that will go down like a lead balloon with FG voters. It would also hand a great win to FF, this won't happen. It is amazing that the abolition or otherwise of IW has become a red line issue between FF and FG. IMHO FG are entirely on the right side of this red line issue.
 
I was glued to the television last weekend and flicked around from station to station when there was dual coverage. At long last there is a huge protest vote in Ireland. Just look at the first preference votes for the weak "Also Rans" where in many instances accumulated to near quota figures even before you counted the spoiled votes. Also, remember one in three people did not vote.

The one sure thing that most of the politicians were saying in the aftermath of the bloodbath was that they did not want another election. If there is another election the Protest Voters will protest even more now that they have got a feel for what they can achieve.
 
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